Washington & Private Jets

[LRvsH25B]

No, quite a few of them have been known to hitch a ride on corp. a/c from within their constituency. Which I hope stops, after the barrage of crap they've laid on the public.

It is REALLY a case of "Do as I say, not as I do". There is NOTHING these guys do that makes them so high and mighty, and in light of some of their antics, I really lost some more of my lagging respect for them. If all of this action is truly about saving jobs, it should be about saving jobs in every industry, not just those that pass muster with his holiness Obama and his minions in the House and Senate.

I don't know who else is in my place, but I don't have skills in anything else to make a good living. I'm taking the attack on our profession a bit personally. I doubt that I'm going to find a job that's anywhere close to what I do now, and don't have time to build back up, let alone take care of retirement from here on out if I have to start over.

As far as Brown goes, I can see the gesture, in light of the importance of the bill, BUT it does send a mixed message, but only to us. That message is lost on the public that is hammering our jobs, not realizing it affects just as many people as any other industry.

LRvsH25B, I know most this won't meet with your approval, but I've donned the asbestos boxers. I've hesitated to weigh in on this one, partly because you do seem to slam those who don't think like you. But it is a forum, and is open to opposing viewpoints.

Regards,
Chris

Chris, I take issue with those that get on here lying and telling a small percentage of the story. It's BS. Congress has not attacked PT91 ops, just 91 Ops whose companies are TARP funded, and if you or anyone else does not understand that, then common sense is not in play here. Companies driven into the ground to the point of insolvency (meaning they're worth nothing) and the FEDs step in to stop their imminent failure and along with that $, they say you can't give out big bonuses and fly private jets, then that's what's got to happen. It's simple, and why people tihnk all part 91 has been attacked when it's only TARP companies is beyond me.
If the companies don't like it, pay the money back and you're on your own. Go to Bankruptcy court and get a judge to approve the flight department's continuing operation. Good luck with that. I am at a loss as to why this is so easy for 99.99% of America to understand, but uneffected pilots come in here saying they taking it on the chin.
There's a Citi pilot whose a member here, and we've not heard a word out of him. I don't knwo why, but he's a fairly verbal person, and I think if he felt like he was getting sh!t on, he'd be on here saying it. With that in mind, he's also fairly smart, so maybe we have not heard how he (Pt 91 operators) are getting screwed over becasue he is smart enough to know just how stupid that would sound.

 

[siucavflight]

He is an employee of the Federal Government and becasue of his position, he requires a high level of security, which is the responsibility of the USA to provide. Presidents have been doing this for years so why is Obama's travel being questioned? 6 weeks ago, Bush was at his Ranch and nobidy on here said anything about it. Why is that?

The number of trips that we paid for for Bush to go to his ranch is ridiculous. But however I never heard Bush forcing corporations to sell their personal aircraft, I think that it is the double standard that upsets most people here.

 

[mwwest2004]

Companies driven into the ground to the point of insolvency (meaning they're worth nothing) and the FEDs step in to stop their imminent failure and along with that $, they say you can't give out big bonuses and fly private jets, then that's what's got to happen.

Even if it hurts business? There is a reason why corporate aircraft exist and have been/are widely used. They are good for business. If that weren't the case, nobody would have any, and this forum section would not exist. These companies failed because they made a bad bet on the housing market. They did not fail because they fly corporate jets. The cost of their jets is tiny compared to the cost of the housing market going bad. The same goes for bonuses. Is it bad that such poorly performing companies gave out huge bonuses? Yes. But taking bonuses away will lead to a lack of motivation and a large drain of resources as people go elsewhere in search of well paying jobs.

I agree that the government has the right to make these requests, but to turn around and act the way they tell others not to is wrong. That said, I hope this leads to companies giving the money back. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldman Sachs did very soon.

 

[Hawker800]

LRvsH25B
No reason to get so stressed out there brother. Who is telling lies? Just a debate with folks expressing their thoughts and opinions. Ease up on the cursing and screaming at a fellow brother. That along with your typing and spelling subtracts from your credibility. Ease up and lets have fun. As a person that pays thousands a year into the federal coffers, I absolutely have an issue with my money used for private travel regardless of the reason. The Govt. fired the first shots. The Govt. needs to get its house in order before it questions the travel means of any private business.

 

[LRvsH25B]

LRvsH25B
No reason to get so stressed out there brother. Who is telling lies? Just a debate with folks expressing their thoughts and opinions. Ease up on the cursing and screaming at a fellow brother. That along with your typing and spelling subtracts from your credibility. Ease up and lets have fun. As a person that pays thousands a year into the federal coffers, I absolutely have an issue with my money used for private travel regardless of the reason. The Govt. fired the first shots. The Govt. needs to get its house in order before it questions the travel means of any private business.

My bad. It's hard to type something and get the inflection with it as well. If you knew me you'd know that's just the way I talk when I am among friends. I could tell from some of the responses mwwest gave that he thought I was rolling on him, and that was not the case at all. I just get to typing so fast and my fingers move faster than my mind at times, but if you see something I wrote on here and think I am getting sh!tty, I'm usually not, just coming hard and ready to get into with these political gurus. It's just hard to tell the way someone says something when you type it and can't actually hear them say it.

 

[LRvsH25B]

Even if it hurts business? There is a reason why corporate aircraft exist and have been/are widely used. They are good for business. If that weren't the case, nobody would have any, and this forum section would not exist. These companies failed because they made a bad bet on the housing market. They did not fail because they fly corporate jets. The cost of their jets is tiny compared to the cost of the housing market going bad. The same goes for bonuses. Is it bad that such poorly performing companies gave out huge bonuses? Yes. But taking bonuses away will lead to a lack of motivation and a large drain of resources as people go elsewhere in search of well paying jobs.

I agree that the government has the right to make these requests, but to turn around and act the way they tell others not to is wrong. That said, I hope this leads to companies giving the money back. I wouldn't be surprised if Goldman Sachs did very soon.

See, i don't think that is the case. These guys have no place to go. Others in their same industry are not hiring, and when they do, they'll see these guys are coming from the companies responsible for the mess we're in, and that would be a red flag as they probably had a part in all this mess. I think they're going to stay put. If they think that they can do better elsewhere, fine, let them quit and go find other work.

Also, you're right. Not 1 single failure was the result of a corporate jet. But they were operating these jets when they got into this mess, so clearly, the jets were just an additional large expense that was doing nothing to help them generate revenue, as most were just hours from having to close were it not for Bush stepping in and funding these companies. They literally didn't have money of their own in their own bank. They were flat out broke. I think the jets need to go if you take TARP funds.

 

[Hawker800]

LRvsH25B
Know what you mean. I am usually a man of few words which sometimes gets me into trouble. (My original post). Anyway have an early one in the morning and have to get ready. Fly safe my friend.

 

[mxpilot2]

Two thoughts.

1) Obama (and the media) are not differentiating between anything when they're using terms like "corporate bigwigs and their jets". Those are the sound bites that stick in the public's brain, and come back out when talking among themselves. There have been reports of companies, public and private, who've elected to close their departments rather than sack up under scrutiny. Reports from the crews put out of work.

2) Not all companies receiving TARP funding are "driven into the ground". Some are getting it because the economy has taken its toll in spite of best efforts to get out of risky lines of business before it hit the fan. The market has taken a "broad brush" approach to all financial industries, so some companies take the funds to prop things up til things get better. Should those be forced to get rid of the tools to help get things back, and prolong recovery?

Just a different view.

 

[mwwest2004]

See, i don't think that is the case. These guys have no place to go. Others in their same industry are not hiring, and when they do, they'll see these guys are coming from the companies responsible for the mess we're in, and that would be a red flag as they probably had a part in all this mess. I think they're going to stay put. If they think that they can do better elsewhere, fine, let them quit and go find other work.

Also, you're right. Not 1 single failure was the result of a corporate jet. But they were operating these jets when they got into this mess, so clearly, the jets were just an additional large expense that was doing nothing to help them generate revenue, as most were just hours from having to close were it not for Bush stepping in and funding these companies. They literally didn't have money of their own in their own bank. They were flat out broke. I think the jets need to go if you take TARP funds.

These guys will find other ways to make money if they don't like what the government offers them. They'll likely be able to earn more on their own or together if some of the numbers coming out of Washington are true with regard to bonus caps, and will if the government is not careful. Remember, their business practices are not completely flawed, it was one narrow category of investments that caused all of this. Good investors will continue to do well after one bad call (or set of similar bad calls).

 

[LRvsH25B]

These guys will find other ways to make money if they don't like what the government offers them. They'll likely be able to earn more on their own or together if some of the numbers coming out of Washington are true with regard to bonus caps, and will if the government is not careful. Remember, their business practices are not completely flawed, it was one narrow category of investments that caused all of this. Good investors will continue to do well after one bad call (or set of similar bad calls).

I still ask, who is going to hire them? Look at the mess one narrow category of CEOs caused for the Pt91 operators. See how it takes the rest with it? Good flight departments are history. Even if that sector was hiring, who is going to take a chance on a guy from AIG or Lehman Brothers?

 

[mwwest2004]

I still ask, who is going to hire them? Look at the mess one narrow category of CEOs caused for the Pt91 operators. See how it takes the rest with it? Good flight departments are history. Even if that sector was hiring, who is going to take a chance on a guy from AIG or Lehman Brothers?

It wasn't a narrow category of CEOs, it was a narrow category of investment (mortgage securities). If these guys end up leaving or being booted from these companies, I will gauruntee some will start their own hedge funds or work for boutique investment firms that would welcome someone from the major companies. Also, those good flight departments are history thanks, in part, to the big del the government made of them. There is lots of blame to go around.

The numbers thrown around (limiting salary to 400k and bonuses to 1/3 of salary is what I have heard) are less than these guys could make investing their own personal funds in CDs.

 

[LRvsH25B]

It wasn't a narrow category of CEOs, it was a narrow category of investment (mortgage securities). If these guys end up leaving or being booted from these companies, I will gauruntee some will start their own hedge funds or work for boutique investment firms that would welcome someone from the major companies. Also, those good flight departments are history thanks, in part, to the big del the government made of them. There is lots of blame to go around.

The numbers thrown around (limiting salary to 400k and bonuses to 1/3 of salary is what I have heard) are less than these guys could make investing their own personal funds in CDs.

You missed the analogy. I was trying to say see how the Big 3 CEOs showing up in DC in the Gs has dragged the rest of the industry down. You mentioned it was a narrow catagory of the company that caused this mess, and while I agree, the stink get carried by the rest of the people who work there, just like it's being carried by all of us just because was are hard working blue collar guys that had nothing to do with the Big 3, but we fly airplanes for corporations, so we have to just sit here and take it.

I think the majority of small investment firms whose good name is in tact want nothing to do with some fancy Wall Street trader who just quit his job becasue he thought his TARP *Government Owned" company didnt give him a big enough bonus, even though his job was GONE until the feds stepped in, just like the airplanes werel they were gone until they got GOVT money to keep them afloat. They've made it this far without taking risk and doing things by the book, and I can't imagine they'd want to put all that on the line for some AIG trader or Lehman broker. The people whose money they buy and sell dont want someone with TARP stink on them having anythning to do with their money. A foreign firm might pick them up, but I think their options are slim stateside.

As for the CD issue, the rates are in the gutter, especially in the short term market, If you dont mind 5 years, then you might get 4-5%. That's 50K for every million you put in it, and being without 1M for a year just to get 59 is simply not worth it, expecially after the tax man gets done taking his share.

 

[stupidpilot]

Disregard this bozo LrvsH25B. He is a full on left wing kool aid drinkig nutcase. The left can do no wrong in his eyes.

 

[siucavflight]

I am pretty sure that he is just posting flame bait.

 

[jet2work]

HERE's ONE

Unless you work for a Tarp funded company operating biz jets, the Gov't isn't questioning sh!t, so don't come on here with that lie.
The GOV'T is the largest shareholder in these companies. Are you suggesting a company's largest investor (the one who kept the company from folding) does not have the right to do so? You're out of your fukcing mind.
Walmart has the largest fleet of corporate jets out of any 81 operator. They're publically traded. The GOV't saying anything to them? What about Exxon Mobil? What did the Gov't say to them? I could go on for days with non TARP companies with jets who are unaffected. The facts are that if you are not TARP funded, then nobody is saying sh!t to you. That's a fact and you can't dispute it. Name me 1 non TARP funded company who the GOVT has said anything to about their private jets? If you can't, then STFU about being attacked by the GOVT becasue you know its bullsh!t. Even better, name me 1 company the GOVT said something to about the jets that is not TARP funded. Once again, if you can;t, STFU.

FORD MOTOR COMPANY. They got the scorn heaped on them by your pal Barney Frank (whom I suspect you have many things in common).

TARP dollars taken to date $0.

So there you go mister know it all.

Funny you got all indignant about perceived racial comments on another post, but come here and talk like you are straight out of the ghetto (ref. STFU).

Since I just named one (per your requirements) does that mean that I can come here and point out your stupidity and hypocrisy for all to see?

Was it your beloved president that appointed you censor of the flightinfo boards? I bet you can't wait for the "fairness doctrine" to be applied to internet message boards. Meanwhile I will push for them to be applied to newspapers and TV News outlets.

 

[Tgaug6300]

Since Goldman Sachs owns Hawker Beech, should thier Execs. not fly on thier own products?

 

[LRvsH25B]

FORD MOTOR COMPANY. They got the scorn heaped on them by your pal Barney Frank (whom I suspect you have many things in common).

TARP dollars taken to date $0.

So there you go mister know it all.

Funny you got all indignant about perceived racial comments on another post, but come here and talk like you are straight out of the ghetto (ref. STFU).

Since I just named one (per your requirements) does that mean that I can come here and point out your stupidity and hypocrisy for all to see?

Was it your beloved president that appointed you censor of the flightinfo boards? I bet you can't wait for the "fairness doctrine" to be applied to internet message boards. Meanwhile I will push for them to be applied to newspapers and TV News outlets.

I don't know what you think you proved? Ford? What about them? The shut their flight department down under the Bush Administration. They did it own their own. Nobody forced them to do that. You're bound to find out sooner or later, so I might as well tell you our mother's a wh0re, did I ever tell you that?

Now, go fukc yourself.

 

[BoilerUP]

...stay classy, guys...

 

[Tgaug6300]

...stay classy, guys...

Agreed, profanity does not get a point across any better.

 

[LJ45]

I don't know what you think you proved? Ford? What about them? The shut their flight department down under the Bush Administration. They did it own their own. Nobody forced them to do that. You're bound to find out sooner or later, so I might as well tell you our mother's a wh0re, did I ever tell you that?

Now, go fukc yourself.

you have no credibility here in my opinion with your pathetic attitude.