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Washington & Private Jets

Hawker800

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Lets see now. Senators and Congressmen have a problem with comapnines receiving public money operating aircraft. Obama sends a government aircraft, paid for with public money, to transport Mr. Sherrod Brown back to Washington to vote for the stimulus crap. Delayed the vote for five hours in order to do this. Personal transportation. Pot calling the kettle black that is.
 

Tgaug6300

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Enough
Everyone needs to go to Rush Limbaughs' home page and read what he has to say about Cessna's campaign in the Wall Street Journal. I love Rush!
 

LRvsH25B

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Next time you want to post 10% of the story, you would have a little credibility if you went ahead and told the WHOLE STORY. SO Obama just thought he would send Brown an airplane so he would not have to interrupt a vacation or something like that? My A$$,

So, here is the whole story from Foxnews about why he had a plane sent for him. Brown has an obligation to the people who elected him to vote in the Senate. Should he have just skipped his mother's funeral? Is that what he should have done????????

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/13/senator-returns-mothers-memorial-cast-stimulus-vote/
Sen. Sherrod Brown is returning from his mother's memorial services for what could be the decisive 60th vote needed to send the $787 billion economic stimulus plan to President Barack Obama.
The White House has arranged a plane to fly the Ohio Democrat to Washington Friday night and then back to Ohio immediately after the scheduled vote so he can attend church services and the funeral for his mother in Mansfield Saturday morning, his office said.
Brown's mother, Emily Campbell Brown, died on Feb. 2 at age 88. Funeral arrangements were announced later that week.
Brown was to leave for Washington after visiting hours ended at 8 p.m., landing at Andrews Air Force Base in the D.C. suburbs. The vote will be held open until Brown arrives.
A White House official said government transportation was provided because there were no commercial flights available that would allow Brown to make the vote and attend services memorializing his mother.
 

LRvsH25B

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Everyone needs to go to Rush Limbaughs' home page and read what he has to say about Cessna's campaign in the Wall Street Journal. I love Rush!
Agreed. There's nothing like a fat junkie so out of touch with the majority of Americans, is there?

Is it his drug addiction that makes him so likable, or the crimes he committed in order to support that habit (Buying illegal drugs from housekeeper, Doctor shopping)?

I know where you are coming from. Junkies make for great people, don't they?
 

Hawker800

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Regardless it is still personal use of a government airplane. Does this now mean that if there are no commercial flights that it is fine to use corporate jets?
 

landlover

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Agreed. There's nothing like a fat junkie so out of touch with the majority of Americans, is there?

Is it his drug addiction that makes him so likable, or the crimes he committed in order to support that habit (Buying illegal drugs from housekeeper, Doctor shopping)?

I know where you are coming from. Junkies make for great people, don't they?

LRvsH25B you are my new hero.
 

LRvsH25B

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Regardless it is still personal use of a government airplane. Does this now mean that if there are no commercial flights that it is fine to use corporate jets?
Hawker800, he is a member of Congress needing to vote on a nearly 1Trillion dollar piece of legislation. Do you not think that warrented special circumstances. Like I said, it's not like he was on vacation. His mother died and he need to pay his respects, as any of us would. Additionally, he has an obligation to the people of his state to vote on where their money is being spent; the people deserve representation.
Hawker800, my issue was not with what you wrote, I actually agree with you, it's not right. With that said, the circumstances were very unique, and I honestly think the White House would have extended that courtesy to anyone in Congress who needed to vote on something of this size, but were in danger of missing it due to one of their parent's funeral. The way you put it out there, it just sounded like the White House was giving out rides on G-IVs as a "thank you" or jsut for sh!ts and grins, and you and i know that was clearly not the case. I think you might get a little more milage in the future in you are honest and upfront about what goes on, instead of posting 1/2 the story. Let people make up their own minds instead of trying to make it up for them by slanting a story by omitting the most important part of it. Thanks.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
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You gotta admit, the White House sending a government bizjet to pick up a Democratic Senator that proved to be the decisive vote on a controversial spending/stimulus bill, the biggest in the country's history, after dozens of grandstanding hypocrites in Congress and the President himself recently blasted bizjets as a sign of "executive excess", looks mighty bad and extremely elitist.

I agree that the Senator had a responsibility to his constituents and the country and have no problem whatsoever with him using an 89th aircraft to tend to his family affairs...but we're talking about a larger issue with our "lawmakers". For it to be acceptable for Sen. Brown to fly back and forth on a C21 or C37 when there are flights DCA-CLE all day long because of the value of his time and yet for it be irresponsible for CEOs of multi-billion dollar international corporations to use bizjets because of the same concerns....well that's just asinine.

I do hope that Sen. Brown will publically acknowledge the value a "small business jet" provided him both personally and professionally...but I'm not holding my breath.
 

cheyflyer

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Hawker800, he is a member of Congress needing to vote on a nearly 1Trillion dollar piece of legislation. Do you not think that warrented special circumstances. Like I said, it's not like he was on vacation. His mother died and he need to pay his respects, as any of us would. Additionally, he has an obligation to the people of his state to vote on where their money is being spent; the people deserve representation.

Then maybe his State should provide the transportation and the People of that state can foot the bill for said transportation.

Would they have "held" the vote open and provided transportation for the "key" vote/voter if Mr. Brown had an R before -Ohio instead of a d?
 

wacoflyr

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I agree with Boilerup. I don't mind that Sen. Brown was flown back and forth for what are obviously unusual circumstances. What upsets me is that our president, whom I admire and respect, makes sweeping statements regarding my profession without taking into account the effect it will have on thousands of employees who are fearful for their jobs. Congress is guilty as well. Unfortunately, their words have enourmous influence on the perception of the public at large. Anybody see the mayor of Las Vegas' reaction to Obama's comments on corporate conventions at that city? Once again, I admire and respect Obama, but the mayor was right. Congress and Obama need to watch what they say.

Regards, Wacoflyr
 

Hawker800

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LrvsH25B:
Good afternoon. Since you cared to dress me down for as you say "half the story" now my turn. First of all Mr. Brown is a Senator and not a member of Congress. Not that it makes much of a difference. I also felt that most people of average intelligence on here, as are most of the folks in our profession, did not need me to spell it out for them. As to the passing of his parent I know that feeling all too well. The man does have my condolences. His profession needs to lay off of ours. Fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Thank you for your time.
 

mwwest2004

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First...Congress is composed of The Senate and The House of Representatives...So he is a Congressman...

Second...This is a clear showing of government hypocracy...I understand the security reasons for Obama to fly the way he does...This flight for Brown, however, was pure convenience...I am not saying that is wrong either, but when Congress and Obama continue to rip on bankers for flying corporate jets while their companies lose money, then do something like this while government loses trillions sends a bad message...Also, they held the vote open for him until 10:30 on a friday night...not exactly normal business hours for Congress, and the bill has yet to be signed by Obama...So why couldn't they hold the vote until Saturday, so every one could get there, and maybe have more time to actually read the trillion dollar spendfest...Oh...but that would have delayed the departure of Pelosi's government 757 for her European vacation...So hypocritcal...
 

LRvsH25B

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LrvsH25B:
Good afternoon. Since you cared to dress me down for as you say "half the story" now my turn. First of all Mr. Brown is a Senator and not a member of Congress. Not that it makes much of a difference. I also felt that most people of average intelligence on here, as are most of the folks in our profession, did not need me to spell it out for them. As to the passing of his parent I know that feeling all too well. The man does have my condolences. His profession needs to lay off of ours. Fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Thank you for your time.
Nobody dressed you down. Come on Man. Mwwest is correct and you shouldl know that congress is made up of 2 bodies, the Senate and the House of Represenatives. Brown is in fact a Congressman.

You did in fact need to spell it out, and your failure to see that lets me know what you intenetions are here. Not everyone knows the story. You got on here and posted your swallow of a story and made it out to be Obama sent a jet to pick him up just to do it. You failure to explain WHY he sent it, which is the root of the whole story, has nothing to do with intelligence. Those that didnt catch the news Friday probably did not know the story, and your post was simply self serving. This is what you wrote:

Lets see now. Senators and Congressmen have a problem with comapnines receiving public money operating aircraft. Obama sends a government aircraft, paid for with public money, to transport Mr. Sherrod Brown back to Washington to vote for the stimulus crap. Delayed the vote for five hours in order to do this. Personal transportation. Pot calling the kettle black that is.


If I didn't see the news Friday, how could I reasonably be expected to know this guys mother had died and the jet was so he could attend the funeral and then fulfill his obligation to the people of Ohio; they should not be punished for Brown's mother dying, and I assure you he was going to go the funeral instead of go to vote if he were made to choose.

Lawmakers are not going after corporate jet operators as a whole. It's funny how corporate pilots are the only ones who think that/see that, while the rest America sees them frowning upon TARP funded companies operating corporate jets.

If you have run your company into the ground becasue you were greedy and tried to make a quick buck, (and that is what happened,) and the FEDs had to step in becasue your company in now insolvent and without FED money your company would fold, then no, corporate jets are clearly not for you. You don't need them; what you need to do is get your house in order. Buy the FEDs out, as they are now your company's largest stock holder, then you can have your jets back, but until then, you are not a private company, and the lagrest stock holder will have his say, as it happens in pubicly traded companies; that's how it works.

Walmart, Coke, Exxon Mobil, Valero, are all publicly traded companies with large corporate jets fleets and you don't hear anybody saring anything to them, now do you? No, and why is that? Because they can AFFORD THEM! They are not taking TARP funds, so they can do as they please in terms of a corporate jets presense in their house. See how that works?
 

LRvsH25B

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First...Congress is composed of The Senate and The House of Representatives...So he is a Congressman...

Also, they held the vote open for him until 10:30 on a friday night...not exactly normal business hours for Congress, and the bill has yet to be signed by Obama...So why couldn't they hold the vote until Saturday, so every one could get there, and maybe have more time to actually read the trillion dollar spendfest...Oh...but that would have delayed the departure of Pelosi's government 757 for her European vacation...So hypocritcal...
The vote was held in the Senate. It had already been sent back to the House and the amended version was voted on and sent back to the Senate for a final vote, so they were already gone.

Where can I find the story of Pelosi taking a personal vacation in a USAF 757 to Europe? That didn't seem to make the news.
 

mwwest2004

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The pelosi thing was mostly sarcasm, but her trip to Italy is well known...I'm not sure how she got there...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492744,00.html

Also, I know the vote in the house was already done, and that the taking place was only in the Senate at the time, but dont you think it would look bad for Pelosi to leave before her masterpiece of a bill was officially passed? All I am saying is, why couldn't this bill have waited until saturday, or monday to have this vote? It still, at the time of this writing, has not been signed. If they had just waited a few hours until Saturday, he could have flown ccommercially. Also he went home to his home state for a personal reason...why is the federal gov't paying for his personal travel? Why not his home state? Or him?
 

LRvsH25B

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The pelosi thing was mostly sarcasm, but her trip to Italy is well known...I'm not sure how she got there...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492744,00.html

Also, I know the vote in the house was already done, and that the taking place was only in the Senate at the time, but dont you think it would look bad for Pelosi to leave before her masterpiece of a bill was officially passed? All I am saying is, why couldn't this bill have waited until saturday, or monday to have this vote? It still, at the time of this writing, has not been signed. If they had just waited a few hours until Saturday, he could have flown ccommercially. Also he went home to his home state for a personal reason...why is the federal gov't paying for his personal travel? Why not his home state? Or him?
He is an employee of the Federal Government and becasue of his position, he requires a high level of security, which is the responsibility of the USA to provide. Presidents have been doing this for years so why is Obama's travel being questioned? 6 weeks ago, Bush was at his Ranch and nobidy on here said anything about it. Why is that?
 

LJ45

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He is an employee of the Federal Government and becasue of his position, he requires a high level of security, which is the responsibility of the USA to provide. Presidents have been doing this for years so why is Obama's travel being questioned? 6 weeks ago, Bush was at his Ranch and nobidy on here said anything about it. Why is that?

Because OUR government is questioning OUR travel. Maybe, when your love affair with the new pres. is over you will get your head out your A$$.
 

mwwest2004

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He is an employee of the Federal Government and becasue of his position, he requires a high level of security, which is the responsibility of the USA to provide. Presidents have been doing this for years so why is Obama's travel being questioned? 6 weeks ago, Bush was at his Ranch and nobidy on here said anything about it. Why is that?

I haven't said anything about Obama's travel, except to say that I find it necessary. I never complained about it. Also, I never said it was inherently wrong for the Senator to travel privately (although, I'm not sure a jet was necessary...Ohio to Washington is very possible with something more cost effective), I simply feel that it is somewhat hypocritical and sends a bad message for the government, which is as bad or worse financially than the bailed out banks, to be using this sort of expensive travel while claiming that it is terrible and greedy for the banks to use the same type of travel. Do all Senators and Representatives, including Sherrod Brown carry out all of their travel in private aircraft paid for by the government?
 

mxpilot2

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No, quite a few of them have been known to hitch a ride on corp. a/c from within their constituency. Which I hope stops, after the barrage of crap they've laid on the public.

It is REALLY a case of "Do as I say, not as I do". There is NOTHING these guys do that makes them so high and mighty, and in light of some of their antics, I really lost some more of my lagging respect for them. If all of this action is truly about saving jobs, it should be about saving jobs in every industry, not just those that pass muster with his holiness Obama and his minions in the House and Senate.

I don't know who else is in my place, but I don't have skills in anything else to make a good living. I'm taking the attack on our profession a bit personally. I doubt that I'm going to find a job that's anywhere close to what I do now, and don't have time to build back up, let alone take care of retirement from here on out if I have to start over.

As far as Brown goes, I can see the gesture, in light of the importance of the bill, BUT it does send a mixed message, but only to us. That message is lost on the public that is hammering our jobs, not realizing it affects just as many people as any other industry.

LRvsH25B, I know most this won't meet with your approval, but I've donned the asbestos boxers. I've hesitated to weigh in on this one, partly because you do seem to slam those who don't think like you. But it is a forum, and is open to opposing viewpoints.

Regards,
Chris
 
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LRvsH25B

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Because OUR government is questioning OUR travel. Maybe, when your love affair with the new pres. is over you will get your head out your A$$.
Unless you work for a Tarp funded company operating biz jets, the Gov't isn't questioning sh!t, so don't come on here with that lie.
The GOV'T is the largest shareholder in these companies. Are you suggesting a company's largest investor (the one who kept the company from folding) does not have the right to do so? You're out of your fukcing mind.
Walmart has the largest fleet of corporate jets out of any 81 operator. They're publically traded. The GOV't saying anything to them? What about Exxon Mobil? What did the Gov't say to them? I could go on for days with non TARP companies with jets who are unaffected. The facts are that if you are not TARP funded, then nobody is saying sh!t to you. That's a fact and you can't dispute it. Name me 1 non TARP funded company who the GOVT has said anything to about their private jets? If you can't, then STFU about being attacked by the GOVT becasue you know its bullsh!t. Even better, name me 1 company the GOVT said something to about the jets that is not TARP funded. Once again, if you can;t, STFU.

As for our industry getting questioned, I'd much rather be questioned than attacked, as the Republicans have done specifically to part 91. LASP ring a bell? The Republicans (TSA under Bush) put the LASP out there a month before the election. That will bring all Part 91 ops to a halt, and if you think it won't you're a damn fool. So, where is your outrage with LASP?
 
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