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Washington Post: DL & NWA to file by Sept

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IF there is ANY chance that we could go Chap 11 AFTER Oct 17th, I would rather us enter PRIOR to Oct 17th. Look at United. They have NO plan, and they just asked for another extension. Granted. They have been in Chap 11 for 32 months, and they are waiting it out. Also, it is better to go in when you have enough cash to get out. We have about $2 billion in cash, and a lot of that may have to go to the lawyers. We seem to have a plan at Delta, but we were late in implementing it. I am sure there will be some pay cuts, and maybe some scope changes. And, maybe, a merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GL, several months ago I told you Delta would unfortunately be in Ch11 by early Spring, and you called me some names and made an attempt to ridicule. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the UAL Ch11. Nobody just asked for an extension. That is dead wrong. The creditors committee thought the exit timing was too aggressive, and have convinced UAL to back off by a month or so. You could do 5 minutes of research and find that out, but instead you post on a subject you don't understand and don't know the facts.

Unfortunately Delta is not positioned well for a Ch11 visit, before or after Oct 17. I wish that wasn't true, but it is. I don't expect that reality will sink in right away for you either.
 
skykid said:
GL, several months ago I told you Delta would unfortunately be in Ch11 by early Spring, and you called me some names and made an attempt to ridicule. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the UAL Ch11. Nobody just asked for an extension. That is dead wrong. The creditors committee thought the exit timing was too aggressive, and have convinced UAL to back off by a month or so. You could do 5 minutes of research and find that out, but instead you post on a subject you don't understand and don't know the facts.

Unfortunately Delta is not positioned well for a Ch11 visit, before or after Oct 17. I wish that wasn't true, but it is. I don't expect that reality will sink in right away for you either.


Not positioned well, eh? Compared to USAir who filed twice in 3 years? Comapred to United that still doesn't have a good plan? How do you know what the GA judge would do? Maybe we won't go in at all? I don't know. All I was saying is that if we do have to go in, I would rather us go in and do it before the restrictive rules. I am glad you know what will happen. In the meantime, go to your leaders and help devise a plan so you can eventually get out. 32 months???



United Delays Filing Reorganization Plan
Tuesday August 2, 11:02 am ET United Delays Filing Reorganization Plan to Exit Bankruptcy, May Push Chapter 11 Exit to 2006


CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines said Tuesday its parent company has delayed filing a reorganization plan to leave bankruptcy, a move that could push its exit from Chapter 11 protection into next year.

The nation's No. 2 airline said last month that it expected to file a Plan of Reorganization and disclosure statement -- which together will provide a blueprint for United parent UAL Corp.'s exit from bankruptcy -- to U.S. Bankruptcy Court around Aug. 1.

On Tuesday, United said it will continue to work on the plan with its unsecured creditors' committee "in order to provide an additional opportunity to continue collaborating on and reviewing the complex, extensive documents as part of the overall confirmation process."

The company said it expects to file the plan in about a month, delaying its previously stated goal of leaving bankruptcy sometime this fall.

"It may be later this year. It may be early next year," United spokeswoman Jean Medina said of an eventual exit.

"When we first discussed exit timing, we had proposed a very aggressive schedule," Medina said. "But both United and the creditors committee think this approach is going to help us have a smoother exit process."

Carole Neville, an attorney for the unsecured creditors committee, said the committee continues to work with United on the plan. She declined to discuss how long the process might take.

The bankruptcy court, along with United's lenders, unsecured creditors and others, must approve a reorganization plan before the carrier exits bankruptcy.

United, a unit of Elk Grove Village, Ill.-based UAL, still needs to secure $2 billion to $2.5 billion from banks to finance its planned exit from Chapter 11. It has been operating with the help of $1.3 billion in debtor-in-possession financing.

United has lost more than $7 billion since filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in December 2002. It also has slashed about $7 billion in annual expenses, including two rounds of wage and benefit cuts and termination and replacement of its employee pension plan.





Bye Bye--General Lee
 
In your position I'd want to tone down the arrogance. Have you found the extension United just filed yet? I'm watching this pretty close, and it has been reported for the past month that the creditors wanted more time - that is what this is about.

It doesn't matter as much what the judge does, the problem with Delta is going to be the banks/investors do. You might want to study up a bit on Ch11, you will be doing well to be in that double breasted 32 months after Delta files - and I hope you are. Meanwhile, do yourself a favor and can the arrogance.
 
skykid said:
In your position I'd want to tone down the arrogance. Have you found the extension United just filed yet? I'm watching this pretty close, and it has been reported for the past month that the creditors wanted more time - that is what this is about.

It doesn't matter as much what the judge does, the problem with Delta is going to be the banks/investors do. You might want to study up a bit on Ch11, you will be doing well to be in that double breasted 32 months after Delta files - and I hope you are. Meanwhile, do yourself a favor and can the arrogance.

I will tone it down. I just think it is funny that everyone knows exactly what will and will not happen. I believe that the creditors have a lot to lose with the third largest airline going down. We have a plan, and the creditors will like that too. And, we only have one union, which is one less obstacle compared to most. We also have some cash and time to play with.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
WillowRunVortex said:
No,,,not a raise, but they didnt have to take the opposite line and say to management "what ever you say boss". You watch, management has them in check now. When they'r done with the other two groups they will go back to the pilots for some-more pillaging.

WRV-

Management's "opener" was basically a copy of today's UAL contract.

The pilot's ended up taking a 15% wage cut, with very minor work rule chages; (a 15% cut in overtime pay, no bumping rights for ANC based pilots bidding new equipment, etc...). There is a WIDE GULF between what MGMT wanted, and what the pilots gave. MGMT was satisfied with the deal so they could (1) refinance the $1B revolver debt, and (2) focus on the other unions.

Will the pilots give again ? You bet. The current agreement allows MGMT to start negotiating again with them 30 days after the last union settles, (AMFA, PFAA). Expect another 15-20% overall cut, comprised mostly of wages, with some more work rule changes.

Would they pony up more $$$$ before the other unions settle, to keep the company out of CH 11 ? Probably.

320AV8R
 
320AV8R said:
WRV-

Management's "opener" was basically a copy of today's UAL contract.

The pilot's ended up taking a 15% wage cut, with very minor work rule chages; (a 15% cut in overtime pay, no bumping rights for ANC based pilots bidding new equipment, etc...). There is a WIDE GULF between what MGMT wanted, and what the pilots gave. MGMT was satisfied with the deal so they could (1) refinance the $1B revolver debt, and (2) focus on the other unions.

Will the pilots give again ? You bet. The current agreement allows MGMT to start negotiating again with them 30 days after the last union settles, (AMFA, PFAA). Expect another 15-20% overall cut, comprised mostly of wages, with some more work rule changes.

Would they pony up more $$$$ before the other unions settle, to keep the company out of CH 11 ? Probably.

320AV8R

I return to my original point,,,You guys folded like a deck of cards, saving/giving management the necessary energy and resources to go to unprecedented lengths to do battle with the other two groups on the property. I.E. interviewing/training large numbers of contract/replacement mechanics/FA's. What a waste of money! Once management had the pilots in their back pocket it was a free for all for management to go after the other two groups. NWA management is paving the way to use all contract employees at an airline. When will they secretely interview/train replacement pilots?
 
Ok let me ask this.

The Eastern pilots don't cross the Mechanics picket lines, but the ones that do are SCABS for life, even the ones who went back AFTER the MEC Chariman says to.

Now we have the Mechanics of NWA perhaps going out, but NWA ALPA and pilots are most likely going to be in the cockpits.

Why are'nt the NWA pilots going to be just as big SCABS, as an EAL pilot? WHAT GIVES...
 
COpilot said:
Ok let me ask this.

The Eastern pilots don't cross the Mechanics picket lines, but the ones that do are SCABS for life, even the ones who went back AFTER the MEC Chariman says to.

Now we have the Mechanics of NWA perhaps going out, but NWA ALPA and pilots are most likely going to be in the cockpits.

Why are'nt the NWA pilots going to be just as big SCABS, as an EAL pilot? WHAT GIVES...

THEY ARE GOING TO BE SCABS in the true sense of the word.
 
Just mold that interpretation of "scab" to any way that suits you. In other words... A very loose interpretation.
 

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