WANTED: Furloughed DAL pilots?

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

What? What are you talking about? We won the arbitration hearing, but it took 15 months.

You may have stopped the hemorrhage but what can you do to replace the lost blood ??

How many aircraft will you have lost with the retirement of all the 727's, MD-11's and the 737's in the desert ???

What equipment will the 1060 furloughes pilots come back to??

Your only hope is some agreement with management too get your hands on some CRJ 70's. The economics on that are not in your favor.

With a possible American Chapter 7 later this year there will be immense pressure on Leo to restructure the entire airline to compete with the remaining carriers in the industry. Delta will be the only remaining carrier with a bloated cost structure. Not a good position for any of us !

Your battle with management has not even begun.

Cheers

 

[NYRANGERS]

Gen Lee,





With a possible American Chapter 7 later this year there will be immense pressure on Leo to restructure the entire airline to compete with the remaining carriers in the industry. Delta will be the only remaining carrier with a bloated cost structure. Not a good position for any of us !

Your battle with management has not even begun.

Cheers

Before you go bestowing your knowledge on us. Learn the difference between chapter 11 and chapter 7. It's not that hard to compete with an airline in chapter 7.

 

[rjcap]

Before you go bestowing your knowledge on us. Learn the difference between chapter 11 and chapter 7. It's not that hard to compete with an airline in chapter 7.

I stand corrected.

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP,

There is a big difference between us and the other majors. I keep stating that our CFO Michele Burns stated recently that we had an operating PROFIT of $177 million last quarter. Our losses stemmed from more of those fun one time charges----dealing with the parking of the 727's, MD-11's, funding of Song startup, and buying 700 kiosks (which will help us big time in the future---no insurance needed for those kiosks). We are hedged big time--saving a lot more money than UAL, AA, CO, and NW. We only have one union, which makes us flexible.

I went into the ATL chief pilot's office last week and asked why we were the only ones asked to take a pay cut. The chief pilot said that there was an internal audit taken, and that all of the other employees' wages were equal to that of other airlines---according to job type. We on the other hand, were making a heck of a lot more than any other pilot. So you see the difference? It wasn't that they needed the money necessarily, rather we just were paid more than other pilots in the industry. This wasn't the case 1 year ago---the UAL pilots were pretty close to our pay. We have been a "fixed cost" for Delta---we have a contract and they have known exactly how much we will cost throughout this contract. (They probably use a calculator..)
Have costs actually gone up? Some have---security (doors etc), and somewhat the fuel(even though we are hedged very well throughout the rest of the year----and after the war fuel is forcasted to go down to around $23 a barrel--from about $35 a barrel now). But, with all of the plane groundings and displacements (713 displacements on this last bid) the costs have gone way down. I know guys who have been displaced a couple times----767FO to 737-800 FO---MD88FO etc--and have lost thousands of dollars in yearly earnings. My point is that the amount of money that was a fixed cost is a lot less due to parking of aircraft etc. (yes, training costs are higher--but they own the sims) Delta has also retired a lot of other personel--and those Kiosks are replacing ticket counter agents. Delta has cleaned up its balance sheet and is ready to make money after this war is over with. AA and UAL don't have any real plans to fight the LCC, and Delta does (with a dumb name though). We are not in the same league with AA and UAL when it comes to losses---and Delta still wants to lower pay---even though we do not have the same problems. Don't group us with AA and UAL.
We probably will give alittle back--like giving up our May raises etc--but we will get something out of it---like CRJ70's etc.

CL65@350,

I am glad I entertain you.?. Reading the responses from some of these people make me chuckle too. Don't get me wrong, I am concerned with this situation and hope the war goes fast, but I feel very lucky to be with Delta. I love it when people automatically turn to the pilots for money. Well, we may give some, but it will have a snapback when times are better---no doubt. I never was that cocky as a freshman----I was pretty much cocky starting in sixth grade.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cl65@350]

general...

has the crj rumor spread throughout mainline yet, and what do your furloughed friends think about it?

i imagine that dalpa will be in an excellent bargaining position to get the furloughed guys into that plane, or a 100 seater! is delta serious about a 100 seater? i heard the 737600 was WAY too expensive and might as well buy the 800...

you are very lucky to work for delta...yes, mgt can be hard to deal with but be very happy they are SMART!

later

 

[agv]

General Lee, you have a contract, for now!!!!!! I wouldn't be surprised at all if DL declared bankruptcy just to deal a blow to the pilots!!! APA realizes the industry has PERMANENTLY CHANGED and decided to talk to management about concessions. It is just a no brainer!! Your DALPA unit will cause your own demise!!! The payscales currently in place at the MAJORS can no longer be supported, that is very clear!! You simply cannot keep asking people to pay PREMIUM prices when there are much cheaper alternatives providing the same quality transportation. Why should we, because the airplane have Delta painted on them?? I for one will not fly on ANY major unless it benefits my pocket!!! I have flown on JetBlue, Southwest, Spirit, America West, and Frontier, the service is actually MUCH better and all but one time I have been on time, unlike going thru the ATL Delta hub, good luck!!!

The DALPA unit IS going to be like the rich man who starts loosing everything, but has to look good in the process, with his nice suit, expensive car, etc, and not paying attention whatsoever of what is going on arround him!! The airlines, if you did not know, are a BUSINESS, they need to make money to survive. A prime example is Southwest. They have made money every year of their existence (except the first) and still treat their employees well. When you have highly motivated employees working for you (ande reasonable!!), it easy to run a company efficiently!!

I still find it incredible that there are such blind labor groups out there!!!!

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

If the chap 11's include Usair, United and then AA then we can assume that the result will be a virtual rewrite of their pilot compensation packages including retirement. If at least 1 of the above will go the distance and dissolve under chapt 7 then-

1, Will the elimination of 1 or 2 carriers correct the industry over capacity problem enough that a resurgence in air fares will then pull the survivors into the black ?? We must consider that a drastic reduction in capacity will result in new players entering the market such as Skywest and ACA going it alone to survive.

2, If only Continental and Delta stay out of Chapt 11 will the dramatically lower operating costs of the other survivors be so great that Delta and Continental are now at a severe competitive disadvantage?? - This question assumes that the Chapt 7 carriers streamlined operations as well as greatly reduced pilot and worker compensation.

Would it be possible that the carriers that avoid draconian operational changes from chapter 11 filing merely survive to suffer a longer drawn out demise ??

cheers.

 

[canadflyau]

If this is true, then why would pilots pay affect if they get to fly the 70's. Pay alone does not equal CASM, that is what management continually would like us to believe. If Delta began to absorb flying of the RJ's it could be cost saving while still paying the pilots a higher wage... It could eliminate tons of overhead costs that are incurred by operating 3 seperate companies which it owns (Delta/Comair/ASA) By increasing the size of Delta and eliminating the costs of 3 seperate executive payscales, 3 seperate facility leases, 3 seperate Human Res., 3 seperate everything. I am sure someone on this board can site specifics, but pilot pay only makes up something like 25% of CASM.. So if that statistic was ball park and they begin working on all the overhead that makes up the 75% of CASM, you could pay pilots what they deserve to fly a 70 seat airliner (they aren't RJ's) while still decreasing the overall CASM. Maybe Delta is thinking outside the box..

I belive that is what APA is proposing to AMR, and from what I heard they are listening.

 

[rjcap]

It could eliminate tons of overhead costs that are incurred by operating 3 seperate companies which it owns (Delta/Comair/ASA) By increasing the size of Delta and eliminating the costs of 3 seperate executive payscales, 3 seperate facility leases, 3 seperate Human Res., 3 seperate everything.

Excellent point !

Anybody care to guess the sum of money that is wasted by operating three seperate corporate infrastructures ??

multiple Facilities,
multiple middle and senior management,
multiple purchasing,
multiple maintenance facilities
multiple crew dispatch and crew planning - crew scheduling

the list goes on and on.

 

[rjcap]

Here it is:

"If United and US Airways were successful in getting themselves reorganized under bankruptcy, they would come out with a cost structure that is substantially better than that of solvent carriers and initially would put a tremendous amount of pressure on organizations like Delta, American, Northwest and Continental to revamp their cost structures outside of bankruptcy," Mullin said.