WANTED: Furloughed DAL pilots?

[agv]

General Lee, you have a contract, for now!!!!!! I wouldn't be surprised at all if DL declared bankruptcy just to deal a blow to the pilots!!! APA realizes the industry has PERMANENTLY CHANGED and decided to talk to management about concessions. It is just a no brainer!! Your DALPA unit will cause your own demise!!! The payscales currently in place at the MAJORS can no longer be supported, that is very clear!! You simply cannot keep asking people to pay PREMIUM prices when there are much cheaper alternatives providing the same quality transportation. Why should we, because the airplane have Delta painted on them?? I for one will not fly on ANY major unless it benefits my pocket!!! I have flown on JetBlue, Southwest, Spirit, America West, and Frontier, the service is actually MUCH better and all but one time I have been on time, unlike going thru the ATL Delta hub, good luck!!!

The DALPA unit IS going to be like the rich man who starts loosing everything, but has to look good in the process, with his nice suit, expensive car, etc, and not paying attention whatsoever of what is going on arround him!! The airlines, if you did not know, are a BUSINESS, they need to make money to survive. A prime example is Southwest. They have made money every year of their existence (except the first) and still treat their employees well. When you have highly motivated employees working for you (ande reasonable!!), it easy to run a company efficiently!!

I still find it incredible that there are such blind labor groups out there!!!!

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

If the chap 11's include Usair, United and then AA then we can assume that the result will be a virtual rewrite of their pilot compensation packages including retirement. If at least 1 of the above will go the distance and dissolve under chapt 7 then-

1, Will the elimination of 1 or 2 carriers correct the industry over capacity problem enough that a resurgence in air fares will then pull the survivors into the black ?? We must consider that a drastic reduction in capacity will result in new players entering the market such as Skywest and ACA going it alone to survive.

2, If only Continental and Delta stay out of Chapt 11 will the dramatically lower operating costs of the other survivors be so great that Delta and Continental are now at a severe competitive disadvantage?? - This question assumes that the Chapt 7 carriers streamlined operations as well as greatly reduced pilot and worker compensation.

Would it be possible that the carriers that avoid draconian operational changes from chapter 11 filing merely survive to suffer a longer drawn out demise ??

cheers.

 

[canadflyau]

If this is true, then why would pilots pay affect if they get to fly the 70's. Pay alone does not equal CASM, that is what management continually would like us to believe. If Delta began to absorb flying of the RJ's it could be cost saving while still paying the pilots a higher wage... It could eliminate tons of overhead costs that are incurred by operating 3 seperate companies which it owns (Delta/Comair/ASA) By increasing the size of Delta and eliminating the costs of 3 seperate executive payscales, 3 seperate facility leases, 3 seperate Human Res., 3 seperate everything. I am sure someone on this board can site specifics, but pilot pay only makes up something like 25% of CASM.. So if that statistic was ball park and they begin working on all the overhead that makes up the 75% of CASM, you could pay pilots what they deserve to fly a 70 seat airliner (they aren't RJ's) while still decreasing the overall CASM. Maybe Delta is thinking outside the box..

I belive that is what APA is proposing to AMR, and from what I heard they are listening.

 

[rjcap]

It could eliminate tons of overhead costs that are incurred by operating 3 seperate companies which it owns (Delta/Comair/ASA) By increasing the size of Delta and eliminating the costs of 3 seperate executive payscales, 3 seperate facility leases, 3 seperate Human Res., 3 seperate everything.

Excellent point !

Anybody care to guess the sum of money that is wasted by operating three seperate corporate infrastructures ??

multiple Facilities,
multiple middle and senior management,
multiple purchasing,
multiple maintenance facilities
multiple crew dispatch and crew planning - crew scheduling

the list goes on and on.

 

[rjcap]

Here it is:

"If United and US Airways were successful in getting themselves reorganized under bankruptcy, they would come out with a cost structure that is substantially better than that of solvent carriers and initially would put a tremendous amount of pressure on organizations like Delta, American, Northwest and Continental to revamp their cost structures outside of bankruptcy," Mullin said.

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP,

I am not saying that we would not take some cuts, but it would be negotiated to come back when times get better---which they will eventually. I am sure that IF Dalpa negotiated for the 70 seat RJ's---it would not be an high rates at all---probably closer to Comair rates. See the thing is---if Delta wants more than 57 70 seaters before 2007 (after long negotiations from 2005) they will have to get Dalpa's permission. We have 1060 pilots out right now, and probably won't be getting any new airplanes unless UAL goes Chap 7 or sells us the Asian routes (Our CFO said we have the borrowing power and are interested) or LHR stuff. A lot depends on what happens with UAL, USAir, and AA. We are NOT in the same financial leagues as those guys. We are losing some money, but we have better flexibility (RJ's etc), better hedging of fuel, and better management with connections. I feel very lucky to be at Delta. The reason it would be a seperate subsidiary for the 70 seaters would be to counter "integration" with ASA/Comair.

AGV,

Delta in bankruptcy? Unlikely. The management at Delta cares too much about the stockholders---they have given a stock dividend every quarter, even through 9-11. We have most of our costs under control, and Leo asked only the pilots to take a pay cut, and none of the other 50,000 workers (non-union) have to. Why would that be? AA is asking for cuts from everyone. Delta is telling the government NOT to give anyone any aid. They are trying to ride this out and see who is still standing at the end. We have around $2.5 Billion in cash (some borrowed), and $5 billion we can mortgage. The pilots started talks with management on Tues about concessions, but the talks will continue through this war to make sure they don't pull another Force Manure. We will probably give up some things, but we will have snapbacks when better times come back. You probably saw my other posts that stated that last quarter we had a $177 million operating profit, but the $360 million or so loss came from one time charges like parking the 727's, MD11's etc. We will trim costs, but we want them back eventually. Thanks for your concern.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Just wondering General, what makes you think that DAL wants more than 50 CRJ-700's right now? They seem to get what they want, when they want it. At some point down the road they may want more than 50, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. If they wanted more than 50 they would have gotten them when they met with DALPA on the CO/NWA code-share wouldn't they?

Also, CRJ-700 production has ground to a near halt. They are having production problems at Canadair. There is the fuel AD to contend with (it can be pretty restrictive unless you have the AMOC approval). There is also talk of a bankruptcy at Bombardier.

I'm not saying that it will not happen, I just wonder why you are so optimistic about this happening?

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

I do not have any inside knowledge of exact negotiations, but I know that Delta likes that 70 seater---at Comair Wages that is. I know there is an AD out on the CRJ70, and infact ASA has told Delta that it cannot fly nonstop from DCA---DFW in the headwinds with the lack of center tank fuel. What I told you was what I heard at the ATL Chief Pilots office (management pilots)---they had the idea of offering Dalpa extra 70 seaters and have the furloughs fly them under a new subsidiary. Whether or not that
actually comes up in negotiations is the question. I just reported what I actually heard. It is an interesting concept and it might float with Dalpa---we'll have to see what happens next. I know for a fact that atleast 1060 pilots would like to fly that airplane--no doubt. As far as the delivery schedule of the CRJ70's-----I am sure that Bombardier could probably make new ones with the new center tank design built in, and they probably would love for some of those options to become actual orders. Who knows?

Bye Bye---General Lee