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New member
Aug 28, 2002
I was a newly winged naval aviator with orders to the Harrier when I got myself admin seperated for fraternization with a navy enlisted girl. I won't go into the details, but I receieved no board, I was sent a letter in the mail.

Upon my dishcarge I appealed and won. I was then hired by an ANG F-16 unit. While my paper work was going through they called to tell me they were being switched to tankers. I decided to look for another unit. I've had a few units interview me and show interest, but it's always come down to the fact I don't fit into either profile. I'm not a UPT candidate, but I'm not an experienced guy.

I need a "B" course at the RTU, and I've tried to sell myself to units as a quick/reliable replacement to the natural attrition that takes place in UPT/IFF. I've even talked to active duty Air Force and Navy (won't talk to the Marines) but my situation is so unique nobody can tell me what to do or who to talk to.

If anyone has any info on fighter units that have lost a lot of young guys, and/or an active duty route (and obligation) please let me know. I'm currently a CRJ FO at a good regional, but it just doesn't make sense that someone qualified with the desire to serve can't find a route back into a fighter.

Thanks in advance
scandal said:
I'm currently a CRJ FO at a good regional, but it just doesn't make sense that someone qualified with the desire to serve can't find a route back into a fighter.

Thanks in advance

One Word: Frat.

Three More: Supply and Demand.

Everyone makes mistakes, and you're past shouldn't be held against you for ever. But, hey, it called accountablity. You may have appealed and "won", but it seems you still "lost" unless I'm looking at the scoreboard incorrectly. I guess you're not in jail (which is a big "win"), but you don't have your Harrier, and your out of the military.

Unfortunately, you're looking for a position when at least the Air Force (if not all the armed forces) have many current and qualified pilots in their weapon systems due to a soft economy and post 9/11.

The USAF had hundreds of pilots who were "qualified" to fly fighters in the early to mid 90s after graduating from T-38s. The only problem: their weren't many fighter slots coming to UPT grads, compared to today's percentage of graduates. However, most guys who graduated were happy to get wings and planes.

Did you ever consider that you may fortunate to get a slot period considering your earlier indiscretion? Is your "desire to serve" only in a fighter? A tanker may not be your first choice, but a bird in the hand is...

Not trying to be too tough on you, but hey, you need to understand you never flew a fighter, and were discharged from the Navy for frat.

My advice: take any slot you can get, and be thankful.

Good Luck
Take the tanker and run. Then, every day for the rest of your military career, say "thanks" to the leadership that hired you anyway, despite your setback. You are truely a VERY luck SOB to be able to get a military flying job after a discharge--whether it was warranted or not.
If you appealed and won, why weren't you reinstated? Sounds fishy. As is said about aeroplane fighting . . . "He who wins is the one who makes the fewest gross errors." Getting involved with an enlisted woman is a gross error. Turning up your nose for a job at a guard unit because your too good to fly mere tanker is another. Your record of getting ejected from the Navy before even starting RTU is not going to sell well on a major airline application. Time to look in the mirror and reassess the situation.
This guy is a Marine. The Navy doesn't have Harriers. Hence his statement about not talking to the Marines about active duty. This is the first time I've heard a Marine call himself a Naval Aviator.
I've tried to sell myself to units as a quick/reliable replacement to the natural attrition that takes place in UPT/IFF.

This isn't a factor for fighter units. If you lose a guy in pilot training, it's not like the unit is suddenly desperate. We lost a guy recently and we were relieved, one less mouth to feed. We may even lose an MQT pilot. No big deal. One reason Guard units send guys to pilot training is to keep the rank structure for getting too top heavy. Besides someone has to be snacko.

Dude, you dropped the ball saying no to a tanker unit. That was the bird in the hand.

Gotta run.
first thing for CCDiscoB, all Marine pilot's are considered Naval Aviator's.

second thing, the dude who started this thread, Scandal, fraternization eh, i don't feel sorry for you at all, sounds like you didn't learn a thing at OCS or TBS ... and with all the broads out there just itch'n to hook up with a fighter pilot, you choose an enlisted Navy women?? ... hopefully after the Corps booted you out you married the chick?

... oh, and then being arrogant enough to turn down a tanker job when it was offered, LOL, my God dude, "WTF over"?? .....

you say, "won't talk to the Marines", eh ... should be more like "I can't talk to the Marines" .....

probably don't want my advice but here it is anyways ... i say too d*mn bad, bud ... very few people get a chance to fly fighters and you blew it .... shoulda taken the tanker job when it was offered!


semper fidelis
The Corps has booted officers out with a bad discharge with no bars and no wings for fraternization. I think the Air Force is being kind to offer to let you wash a tanker.
Scandal earned gold wings, and still has them. You haven't earned anything yet.

Never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole.
Here's a couple of thoughts -

1) The reason it's Naval Aviator vice Navy Aviator is that the former encompasses Navy, Marine, and Coast Guard aviators. “Naval” refers to all of the Naval services (USN, USMC, USCG). We all wear the same wings.

2) In 22 years in the Marine Corps, I saw Marine and Navy officers do some incredibly wrong-headed things. Additionally, I might have been looking in the mirror when I saw them doing them.

If Scandal was innocent (i.e. "I didn't hang out with her" [not frat] vice "I did not have sex with that woman" [frat plus]) then he could be reinstated. He may or may not have had a successful time of it. He should take whatever he is offered and run with it, because the service is not a very forgiving creature, even if you are innocent. If you are only "technically" innocent ["I may have spent some personal time with this enlisted person, but I contend it was professional in nature"] stand by for rough seas - no one will believe it and the interested party should save his breath. That’s the point where someone usually trots out the “Caesar’s wife” platitude.

I'm not referring to Scandal directly here when I say, that some of the most talented and effective officers that we've had in the military have been personally flawed. Service in the military is a privilege and in peace time it often requires a very straight laced lifestyle to succeed. However, during times of conflict the American people don't always have the luxury of demanding that their military leaders be saints. They just have to be satisfied with them being effective.

That said, an inability to follow established organizational norms doesn’t speak well for a young officer. This is why Scandal now finds himself on the street (rightly or wrongly).


1) An AV-8 isn’t a fighter. Neither is an A-10, a U-2, or an F-117. What you are looking for is a TAC jet or a single-seat jet. Fighters shoot down other aircraft for a living. Take whatever assignment you can get if you really desire to serve your country.

2) Take a hard look at what you did to get chucked out of the Marine Corps. I know that the charge you were dismissed on is very hard to prove, long story notwithstanding. If you were truly innocent, fight your way back into the Marine Corps and grab that AV-8 slot. If you were honestly more than just professional acquaintances with this woman, take responsibility for what you did and move on. In either case, Semper fi and I thank you for your desire to continue your service to your country. I hope it all works out for you (and us) in the end.

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