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Wait till media finds out about PFT Paying for Training/bonds

Colonel Savage

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Give 'em the scoop!
 

turbodriver

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enough
Send the media the links to gulfstream with an explanation of who/what they are. See what happens....
 

Raoul Duke

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yes, no other professions requires you to pay for training, give me a break - I don't think the media or the public will see this issue the same way pilots do. 500 hours is the same flying checks or paying for training.
 

Question4U

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yes, no other professions requires you to pay for training, give me a break - I don't think the media or the public will see this issue the same way pilots do. 500 hours is the same flying checks or paying for training.


I hope you can see the difference in flying checks rather than shelling out $20,000 to be a passenger on a 1900. This is why there is a lack of experience out there is b/c people want to buy their way in rather than work for it and maybe learn something along the way. I think the guys that fly checks may even go through a cloud or two also which would be nice before you fly 121.
 

Afraid to Fly

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If someone on here has flown with some guys that went to Gulfstream or other PFJ places OR if you went to GIA or a PFJ type of place and would like to talk to some media outlets about your concerns, PM me. I can get you in touch, I know some large media outlets are interested.
 
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Superpilot92

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the worst part of it is that the passengers dont have a clue they are flying on training flights.
 

crj567

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the worst part of it is that the passengers dont have a clue they are flying on training flights.

They don't have a clue when they are on an IOE flight, either-rocketboy!
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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They don't have a clue when they are on an IOE flight, either-rocketboy!


Quite the large difference there. Line check airman with a new checkout is way different than standard GIA captain puke with sandbag PFT FO.
 

jumppilot

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Quite the large difference there. Line check airman with a new checkout is way different than standard GIA captain puke with sandbag PFT FO.


Bingo.

When I came to a regional, I had 2000 hours.

When I was doing IOE for a major, I already had a type rating in the aircraft.

See the difference?
 

Lear70

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yes, no other professions requires you to pay for training, give me a break - I don't think the media or the public will see this issue the same way pilots do. 500 hours is the same flying checks or paying for training.
YGBSM... you REALLY don't see the difference?

Pay-for-training to shortcut your way into a Regional right seat with 1/3 of the total time required for anyone who DOESN'T PFT??

And, last I checked, the Check haulers (and other freight operators) want a minimum of 1,500 TT too these days.

Welcome to your reality check...
 

coogebeachhotel

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Make that pay 30k for 250 hours. I stand corrected!!!!!
 

727RedTails

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Superpilot92, Please change your avatar note from "glorified bus driver". I know you think it's a joke, but it's not helping our cause.
 

Question4U

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YGBSM... you REALLY don't see the difference?

Pay-for-training to shortcut your way into a Regional right seat with 1/3 of the total time required for anyone who DOESN'T PFT??

And, last I checked, the Check haulers (and other freight operators) want a minimum of 1,500 TT too these days.

Welcome to your reality check...


Exactly, This is why this industry is in the position it is.
 

Tarquinn

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You go from bouncing around the pattern with students, to flying checks. Often at night, in all kinds of weather, flying single pilot while keeping to a schedule. It's a big step, you learn a lot, you scare yourself a few times. You lose some co-workers, maybe even friends, in accidents. You are the PIC right out of the gate. You make the descisions, you explain to the Chief Pilot why it's unsafe to fly, you are responsible for everything that happens... You go to a commuter, now you're the new guy again, learning a new system. Working as a crew, dealing with passengers, maybe more legs in a day, but otherwise, very similar to what you did before. When they learn of your background, Captains trust you. You upgrade after a few years. You've seen a lot, you know the rules inside and out, you've picked up some good advice from the Captains you flew with before, you've figured out works and what doesn't. You know the system. At this point you're pretty seasoned. Get on with a major, and it's no sweat... You've done it all before. Now here comes the guy who tries to bypass the entire process with cheesy shortcuts, and never has the advantage of learning about his strengths and weakneses. Never gets any advice from those who came before him, and has never dealt with anything in the real world of aviation. In the end, that is the difference between climbing the ladder and going to one of these garbage PFT outfits.
 

airbaker

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You go from bouncing around the pattern with students, to flying checks. Often at night, in all kinds of weather, flying single pilot while keeping to a schedule. It's a big step, you learn a lot, you scare yourself a few times. You lose some co-workers, maybe even friends, in accidents. You are the PIC right out of the gate. You make the descisions, you explain to the Chief Pilot why it's unsafe to fly, you are responsible for everything that happens... You go to a commuter, now you're the new guy again, learning a new system. Working as a crew, dealing with passengers, maybe more legs in a day, but otherwise, very similar to what you did before. When they learn of your background, Captains trust you. You upgrade after a few years. You've seen a lot, you know the rules inside and out, you've picked up some good advice from the Captains you flew with before, you've figured out works and what doesn't. You know the system. At this point you're pretty seasoned. Get on with a major, and it's no sweat... You've done it all before. Now here comes the guy who tries to bypass the entire process with cheesy shortcuts, and never has the advantage of learning about his strengths and weakneses. Never gets any advice from those who came before him, and has never dealt with anything in the real world of aviation. In the end, that is the difference between climbing the ladder and going to one of these garbage PFT outfits.

Great post!
 

Dumb Pilot

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This career used to be populated by great aviators and the rest where pilots. Now there are only a few aviators, some pilots and the rest of the bunch that can only be called "plain certificate holders" Is the mentality of the new generation folks, PFT outfits are just exploiting this new way of thinking.
 

Fubijaakr

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It was brought up on day #2 of the hearing.

I listened to the hearing on line. It was Robert Sumwalt who alluded to the Captain's Gulfstream experience. He asked Mary Finnegan (Colgan VP of Admin and certified numbskull) about Pay For Training. And he pointedly asked it the Captain had "paid" for his 250 hours in an RJ.

Her response? "Don't all pilots pay for flight training to get their licenses?"

She was so incredibly dense, she not only didn't understand the context of the question, but fell directly into the trap Sumwalt laid for her.

Why? Because she indicated in an earlier answer that the Captain got hired with such low total time because he had 250 hours in an RJ.
 

rondo

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There has actually been a investigative journalist on some other forums named Allan Cernoff from CNN digging up dirt on Gulfstream Airlines. I imagine he will get the info he's looking for.
 
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