VLJ Pay and QOL...

[AA717driver]

I was just wondering, sitting down reading AIN, will most operators of VLJ's operate with two pilots even though they can fly with one? And, how much of a premium will they pay for the single pilot?

Any single pilot Citation people out there?TC

 

[Diesel]

Hey TC what time is it?

Just kidding. Don't worry logged into all the p0rn weboards with the login aa717driver.

With VLJ's wouldn't the other pilot put a pretty big impact on w/b issues?

 

[LegacyDriver]

Man I was thinking this would be the second coming of the Bonanza.... Doctor-killer/Lawyer-killer.

 

[Capt FFB]

TC-

I was thinking the very same thing. I believe the VLJs are going to be an "industry changing event". Cheap point to point giving some last minute coach fares a run for the money.

My biggest fear is that we pilots will be "racing to the bottom" for salary, benefits, qol, etc. (You know, just like the airlines are now doing.) I'd like to think that VLJs operated single pilot would command a higher salary, etc. Maybe wishful thinking.

 

[HawkerF/O]

VLJs are a low rent bottom feeder 135 OPS dream. You think some of these guys have been bottom of the barrel up to this point, just wait until these pilot that are now getting their privates start looking for jobs. This will lower pay rates all around. A warm body in the right seat will pay 50/day and they'll be used to bottom of the pond wages. This is not going to be pretty. And their training program is a joke. Point me to the FAR that says additional training is required AFTER they get their type to be legal to go hop in the airplane (Short of an SOE). These arrogant MDs, JDs, etc are going to get typed and blow off the additional training that the manufactures are wanting them to complete. The only thing that would be is good advice they (the new owners) are under no obligation to take.

 

[h25b]

I not so sure about lowering pay rates. The insurance underwriters are going to demand a significant amount of experience from the pilots operating them much the same as what they require of a single pilot operated CitationJet.

 

[HS125]

VLJs are a low rent bottom feeder 135 OPS dream. You think some of these guys have been bottom of the barrel up to this point, just wait until these pilot that are now getting their privates start looking for jobs. This will lower pay rates all around. A warm body in the right seat will pay 50/day and they'll be used to bottom of the pond wages. This is not going to be pretty. And their training program is a joke. Point me to the FAR that says additional training is required AFTER they get their type to be legal to go hop in the airplane (Short of an SOE). These arrogant MDs, JDs, etc are going to get typed and blow off the additional training that the manufactures are wanting them to complete. The only thing that would be is good advice they (the new owners) are under no obligation to take.

I fail to see how this will change the status quo for 135 operators or lower the current pay rates. I would expect pay for these aircraft to fall somewhere in the range between single engine turbo prop and King Air pay rates.
Most of these VLJ's aren't any bigger than a Baron and are probably easier to fly. That is after all, the type of aircraft that the VLJ's will be replacing and you already have a lot of low time pilots warming the right seats on Part 135 flights while being paid to warm that seat.

It has been my impression so far that most of the prospective buyers of the VLJ's will be small companies that currently operate light twins or small, older turbo props (King Air 90's & 100's) and 135 operators.

The insurance companies will be the ones calling the shots on training. If these VLJ's are being operated 135, the insurance company will most definitely require annual simulator based training.

There is a thread already started about Eclipse's Mentor program, which is designed to put an experienced pilot with a new Eclipse pilot. I'm sure this will be for the SOE experience required by FAR 61.63, that a pilot without the required flight times must have. So at face value, it appears that at least one manufacture is concerned about training. I'm sure they don't want these things falling out of the sky on a regular basis.

 

[flyin4pennies]

You are required to keep up currentcy in type per FARs otherwise your type becomes noncurrent. And yes the insurance companies are going to take control on this one. I've been doing a lot of research on this one.

 

[HS125]

You are required to keep up currentcy in type per FARs otherwise your type becomes noncurrent. And yes the insurance companies are going to take control on this one. I've been doing a lot of research on this one.

Actually the way I understand it, the only currency requirement would be a FAR 61.56 Flight Review every 24 calendar months and this could be done in a 152. These VLJ's are single pilot aircraft and therefore the pilot would not require the 12 calendar month Pilot Procficiency check required by FAR 61.58.

The only type specific currency requirements would be the takeoff and landing requirements of FAR 61.57.

There is no FAR recurrent training requirement for Part 91 operations in an aircraft of the size of the VLJ's or for any other single pilot jet.

 

[flyin4pennies]

Actually the way I understand it, the only currency requirement would be a FAR 61.56 Flight Review every 24 calendar months and this could be done in a 152. These VLJ's are single pilot aircraft and therefore the pilot would not require the 12 calendar month Pilot Procficiency check required by FAR 61.58.

The only type specific currency requirements would be the takeoff and landing requirements of FAR 61.57.

There is no FAR recurrent training requirement for Part 91 operations in an aircraft of the size of the VLJ's or for any other single pilot jet.

OK, I'll take your word for it!
You learn something every day in this industry.