Vision Purple?

[minitour]

Someone just got busted on a Commercial oral today because he didn'tknow what vision purple was. I've never even heard of it. Any takers?

-mini

 

[coolyokeluke]

The examiner must have been on acid.

 

[Monkeyfist]

Rhodopsin, google it

 

[minitour]

The examiner must have been on acid.

Nah...he's one of these: "I'm the best pilot in the world, just ask me" kinda guys with a HUGE chip on his shoulder.

I'm just wondering if it's in any of the referenced materials in the PTS. An AC, handbook, anything.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if it isn't in one of the materials referenced by the PTS then he can't bust the guy, correct?

-mini

 

[EatSleepFly]

Someone just got busted on a Commercial oral todaybecause he didn'tknow what vision purple was. I've never even heard ofit. Any takers?

-mini

Ever notice that almost everytime somebody fails a flight/oral itsalmost always "because of" some stupid little thing like this?

Or could it be that they genuinely busted the oral and don't have the balls to own up to it?

Hmmmmm....

 

[minitour]

Ever notice that almost everytime somebody fails aflight/oral itsalmost always "because of" some stupid little thing likethis?

Or could it be that they genuinely busted the oral and don't have the balls to own up to it?

Hmmmmm....

entirely possible...but d@mned if I'm not nervous now...like, what the f*ck is he gonna throw at me?? EEK!

-mini

 

[EatSleepFly]

Never know I guess.

I don't have the first clue what he must have been talking about, if that's worth anything.

 

[bafanguy]

Visual purple has something to do with night vision and is a substance produced by the eye...if I'm remembering my college biology...you can't control it to any extent except, perhaps, to not smoke and use oxygen at high cabin altitudes ( don't bet the rent money on this even ).


The real question is: why is an examiner asking questions on a Commercial oral about human physiology...what does this have to do with your ability to function as a Commercial pilot ?

Perhaps the more important question is: why does this guy continue to hold his examiner's authority ?

 

[minitour]

...
The real question is: why is an examiner asking questions on aCommercial oral about human physiology...what does this have to do withyour ability to function as a Commercial pilot ?

Perhaps the more important question is: why does this guy continue to hold his examiner's authority ?

It's funny you bring this up.

The reason I asked about being tested on things not referencedin the PTS is because I was wondering what authority he has to do suchthings. I have all of the books referenced and am printing outthe ACs referenced but still have not seen anything on PurpleVision or Vision Purple other than on WebMD. But that's reallynot an aviation website. This is really starting to worry me. "D@mnit Jim, I'm a pilot, not a doctor!!!"

-mini

 

[mattpilot]

Actually, rhodopsin, or visual purple, is very much related to flying. I admit, the question is out there and perhaps should of been saved for an ATP ride, or not at all, but it is relevant to flying.

How so?

It has everything to do with nightflying and goes hand in hand with why you should use a red colored flashlight. Rhodopsin is produced by the Rods on the retina. It usually takes up to 30-45 minutes for the rods to produce this visual purple (only produced during low light conditions) and can be "bleached" within a few seconds by bright lights, ruining your nightvision. Iodopsin, the chemical produced by the cones is produced much quicker and essential for day-time vision.

Again, this question is waaaay out there, but still relevant. If this is really the only reason he failed the checkride (which i doubt), then i suggest contacting the FSDO. Perhaps the DPE had to "adjust" his pass/fail ratio so the guys at the FAA didn't get suspicious of him, and perhaps your buddy just happened to get a tough question to be his 'adjustment'.

 

[pilotman2105]

Nothing in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook or the FAA Pilot's Handbookof Aeronautical Knowledge about "Visual Purple" or "Rhodopsin."

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

 

[bobbysamd]

Visual purple

An examiner has a perfect right to ask questions about night flight, including its aeromedical factors. Asking about visual purple is on the order of asking about rods and cones. One should know these things, but not exhibiting "commercial pilot knowledge" of visual purple is not sufficient grounds to pink an oral, unless the rest of the oral otherwise sucked.

I don't recall exactly which FAA pub(s) discuss rods and cones and visual purple, but it could be either the Pilot's Handbook of Aviation Knowledge or the Flight Training Handbook or its successor.

PS-I just read the post below. Rods and cones and visual purple are in the FAA pub(s) because that's where I read about it. See if you can find an old copy of the FTH - it'll be in the night flight section.

PPS-Bafanguy's comments about visual purple are part of the answer to the question.

 

[minitour]

Nothing in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook ortheFAA Pilot's Handbookof Aeronautical Knowledge about "Visual Purple"or"Rhodopsin."

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

Yep...we couldn't find anything either...until WebMD...and Matt explained it perfectly (according to WebMD).


Oh well...now I know that one.

Next I get to go memorize the words on the airworthiness certificate so I don't bust on that question.

-mini

*edit*
JRSlim

It could be. I just gave that one a quick once over but didn'treally dwell on that book...it was okay if you like pictures butthere's other better books out there IMO. Plus that isn'treferenced in the PTS (which I was under the impression was the stuffconsidered "fair game"). But since it seems anything is "fairgame" I better quit posting and get back to more and more and more moremore reading...

 

[JRSLim]

Nothing in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook or the FAA Pilot's Handbookof Aeronautical Knowledge about "Visual Purple" or "Rhodopsin."

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

I am pretty sure it was in the Jeppesen Instrument/Commercial Manual. I do remember reading about it - I think it might have been in the ASA Commercial Oral Prep Guide.

 

[mattpilot]

Hey, the only reason i knew about it mini, was because i'm taking Aviation Medicine at the moment

 

[minitour]

Hey, the only reason i knew about it mini, was because i'm taking Aviation Medicine at the moment

well gee whiz

there's one question you won't have to worry about come Oral time!

I usually love oral too..*rimshot*

-mini

 

[pilotman2105]

It may be in the Jepp books, but as mini eluded to earlier, and how Ihad it explained to me once by a DE and ASC, it isn't "FAA approved"unless it's an FAA publication. Thus, if you can't find an FAApublication that references "Visual Purple" or "Rhodopsin," then theapplicant that got busted on his commercial ride for not knowing thoseterms might have a good arguing point to take up with someone, providedthat is precisely how the question was worded, and that was the ONLYthing he missed on the oral.

Granted, not that one normally goes out and seeks attention from thefeds, but if he's really sore about the bust, it might be worth a phonecall or two.

 

[Cat Driver]

I don't often post on this forum, but this one got to me.

I've been flying for going on fifty two years and hold just about every qualification in the business and never ever heard anyone ask such a question.

But here is a deal for you, send the prick to me and I'll give him a in depth assesment on if he knows something really important..like how to fly.

Cat

 

[A Squared]

Well, I couldn't find any refernce to visual purple in the FTH, but it is mentioned in my Jeppesen PPL text.

THe Commercial PTS used to list Area of Operation 1, Task I, Physiological Aspects of Night Flying, which although it didn't list VIsual purple specifically, certainly that's an aspect of it. The current PTS has dropped this Task. Must be part of the ongoing national effort to dumb everything down.

Hmmm, since they deleted the requirement from the Comm PTS, it isn't a requirement anywhere. Night vision factors aren't in any PTS; PPL, CPL or ATP... guess it's not important. Ignoring for the moment the question of whether you can be held accountable for something which isn't explicitly listed in the PTS; I'm curious. Did he bust the ride only because he didn't know what visual purple is, or did he bust because he was unable to demonstrate an understanding of night vision adaptation (which of course visual purple factores into)?

Let's suppose the task for Physiological Aspects of Night Flying was still in the PTS.

Scenario #1, The examiner asks out of the blue, "what is visual purple?" and pinks the student when he says I don't know.

Scenario #2, The examiner asks a long series of questions about night vision adaptation, none of which is answered satisfactorily. the examiner making one last attempt, says have you ever heard of visual purple. The student says no and gets a pink slip.

I suspect that there are many checkride busts which the "bustee" descibes in a manner similar to scenario #1, yet in reality, were much more like scenario #2.

 

[PropsForward]

Someone just got busted on a Commercial oral today because he didn'tknow what vision purple was. I've never even heard of it. Any takers?

-mini

Err, the color you see when you bust a checkride?

Seriously, the DPE must have a pretty big chip on his shoulder, or the pilot missed quite a bit more on his checkride.

If you suspect the "chip" theory, then I certainly would not seek him out for any checkrides. There are enough DPE's floating around to just avoid this guy.

 

[Daveman]

Someone just got busted on a Commercial oral today because he didn'tknow what vision purple was. I've never even heard of it. Any takers?

-mini

My take; F- that examiner. Go to an other who deals with real flying situations.

 

[qmaster3]

Sounds like a real a$$hole. Why do people just go with any ole examiner? I got the scoop on a few of them. The path of least resistance is the way to go if you don't want that pink slip.

 

[350DRIVER]

The current PTS has dropped this Task. Must be part of the ongoing national effort to dumb everything down.

Excellent point, I couldn't agree more. It never seems to amaze me when I read these posts pertaining to a difficult, hard, and intense examiners actually testing the applicant's ability and knowledge. This whole bit of shopping around, finding the easy DE's, etc, is complete BS, take a little bit of pride in being pushed a little, challenged, and actually "earning" the tickets versus having them handed to you for X amount of dollars. A little hard work and extra effort on your behalf isn't going to kill you, if anything it should make you have that much more pride in yourself and in your accomplishments. A strong hard work mentality will go a long ways not just in this industry but in life in general. Easy isn't always better, I would never consider using a de due to how "easy" that person may or may not be. If you know your stuff then you should be able to pass the ride with any of them.

 

[minitour]

...A little hard work and extra effort on your behalfisn't going to kill you, if anything it should make you have that muchmore pride in yourself and in your accomplishments. A strong hard workmentality will go a long ways not just in this industry but in life ingeneral. Easy isn't always better, I would never consider using a dedue to how "easy" that person may or may not be. If you know your stuffthen you should be able to pass the ride with any of them.

While true and a great point, how are we supposed to pass any check ride if they start testing us on stuff not in the PTS?

Imagine a PPL-ASE applicant being tested on Multi- Engine OEIInstrument Approaches? It isn't in the PTS, but with a littlehard work, they can actually be fun and if you just think about theaerodynamics and how the approaches work they are not all that hard(depending on what you're flying OEI of course).

Anywho, just curious to find out what "Visual Purple" is...all I knowis what matt said, so I guess (if I get asked) I'll just have to spitthat out.

Hopefully (for me at least) ASquared is right and it was more of a"Scenario 2" thing than anything. If that's the case then thisquestion and a few others he was asked won't even come up. I havesome confidence left that what I think I know, I actually know and it's also what the examiner is looking for.

*sigh* Such is the 141 Check Airman's perogative, I guess, to work his own agenda into the oral...oh well.

Thanks for the help all, and 350 and bobby (who didn't really say it,but I kinda think he alluded to it) are right, a little hard work tofind out some things that aren't necessarily in the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge definitely won't hurt me...and look at all the cool sh*t I can tell students now!

Thanks again for the help

-mini

 

[soarby007]

vision purple

The real question is what does the pink slip say? I doubt it says "failed to know vision purple".

 

[bafanguy]

An examiner has a perfect right to ask questions about night flight, including its aeromedical factors. Asking about visual purple is on the order of asking about rods and cones. One should know these things...

PPS-Bafanguy's comments about visual purple are part of the answer to the question.

bobby,

I suppose it's hard to argue against more knowledge, but I can only ask what does one DO with such information as this ? And, since one can't really control it, why would an examiner think it's fair game on an oral when there are literally volumes of information he could ask that would tell him more about the applicant's level of "useful" knowledge ?

Just because these examiners have all this God-like power over applicants doesn't mean they use that power wisely or appropriately.

 

[qmaster3]

No DE will pass a complete idiot, I know that.

I will put it to you like this. We have 1 DE in our area who is a b!tch. So I decided to fly 30 min away. Not having to worry about the DE's "mood" was refreshing. Just got a real world check ride from a Lear Captain. The check ride was worth the money.

Shop around, study, and make sure you pass. 350, I too am proud, because god gave me the brains to shop around. Does your certificate say SEL/with hard fu#king check ride. After all who wants to explain a BUSTED CHECKRIDE at the interview....I sure don't.

 

[minitour]

...who wants to explain a BUSTED CHECKRIDE at the interview....I sure don't.

I guess I agree with that, although I have heard of many with bustedcheckrides that are flying for airlines right now. One guyactually (used to instruct here) had three busts and four gear ups andis flying for a "major" so it isn't like that's the kiss of death.

I just don't want to have to explain:
"So what did you learn when you busted?"
"Well, I learned what Visual Purple is..."
"uh huh....and?"
"and it's this stuff in your eye......."

I wouldn't even be able to imagine the looks on their faces.

-mini

 

[qmaster3]

Mini,

LMAO.....Hope we're flying together someday.

 

[PropsForward]

Sounds like a real a$$hole. Why do people just go with any ole examiner? I got the scoop on a few of them. The path of least resistance is the way to go if you don't want that pink slip.

Excellent advice. Path of least resistance. A rating is a rating is a rating. Does not matter who you got it from. No reason to torture yourself like that.