Virgin must make changes to retain U.S. citizenship

[Old School 737]

The Seattle press actually hates Alaska and will slam us at any chance they get.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

That's not what they did here... read the other articles.

 

[firstthird]

If you read other reports on subject entirely different conclusions can be made. Just sayin'.

if there are other reports that are out there that contradict this, then by all means, post them. I have a Aviation Week subscription and frankly the aviation press doesn't really seem to care about this story. They cover about everything else in excruciating detail but VA's ownership doesn't seem to have risen to the level of newsworthy. So, I'm surprised by your assertion that there are "other reports" out there that contradict this storyline (VA is in violation of the 25% max foreign ownership).

p.s. press releases from Virgin America don't count as 'reports.'

 

[tzskipper]

Maybe this will help? From the DOT

if there are other reports that are out there that contradict this, then by all means, post them. I have a Aviation Week subscription and frankly the aviation press doesn't really seem to care about this story. They cover about everything else in excruciating detail but VA's ownership doesn't seem to have risen to the level of newsworthy. So, I'm surprised by your assertion that there are "other reports" out there that contradict this storyline (VA is in violation of the 25% max foreign ownership).

p.s. press releases from Virgin America don't count as 'reports.'

S

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/busrevletters/Virgin America Letter.html

and the Order dismissing (sorry if the format is off...), my emphasis added.

By the way, why would the Unions listed not attempt to organize the employee groups? Is organized labor doing that well that new membership is not needed?

==============================================

......

Order 2010-1-5
Served: January 8, 2010
UNITEDSTATESOFAMERICADEPARTMENTOFTRANSPORTATION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
WASHINGTON, D.C.
Issued by the Department of Transportation
on the 8th day of January, 2010
Application of
VIRGIN AMERICA INC.
for a certificate of public convenience and necessity under 49 U.S.C. 41102 to engage in interstate scheduled air transportation of persons, property, and mail
Docket DOT-OST-2005-23307
Petition of
ALASKA AIRLINES, INC.
to institute a public inquiry into the citizenship and control of Virgin America Inc.
Docket DOT-OST-2009-0037
Petition of
AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION
to institute a public inquiry into the citizenship and control of Virgin America Inc.
Docket DOT-OST-2009-0047
ORDER DISMISSING PETITIONS
On February 10, 2009, Alaska Airlines, Inc. (“Alaska”), filed a petition to institute a public inquiry into the citizenship of Virgin America Inc. (“Virgin America”). Specifically, the air carrier “move[d] the Department to immediately initiate an investigation into Virgin America’s citizenship and to conduct that investigation on the public record.”1 Alaska cites various changes in Virgin America’s structure and capitalization, and argues that such an investigation should be conducted with formal, public procedures to ensure greater transparency. On February 20, 2009, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association filed a similar petition. Alaska filed a renewed motion on August 21, 2009, arguing that developments since its initial petition supported conducting a public investigation of Virgin America’s citizenship.
Interested parties have filed a number of pleadings both in support of and in opposition to these requests. Virgin America opposes the Alaska petition, while several labor organizations, including the Air Line Pilots Association, the Association of Flight Attendants, and the
1 Petition of Alaska, at 6 (emphasis in original).
2
Transport Workers Union of America, support them, for substantially similar reasons to those cited by Alaska. Several exchanges of pleadings on the subject have been filed since the initial petition.2
We are not persuaded that the public interest requires us to institute a public proceeding in this matter. As petitioners acknowledge, it has long been the Department’s practice to conduct continuing fitness reviews informally. We have determined that an informal continuing fitness review is appropriate here. We have completed such a review of Virgin America’s fitness, and have concluded that Virgin America remains a U.S. citizen, subject to certain conditions. The Department has made public a detailed description of the Department’s review as well as its conclusions and the conditions imposed on Virgin America in a January 8, 2010, letter to the air carrier. That letter is available to any member of the public on the Department’s website at http:\\ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation.
ACCORDINGLY,
1. We dismiss the petitions filed by Alaska Airlines, Inc., and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association in Dockets DOT-OST-2005-23307, DOT-OST-2009-0037, and DOT-OST-2009-0047;
2. We grant all motions for leave to file in Docket DOT-OST-2009-0037; and
3. We will serve a copy of this order on the persons listed in Attachment A.
By:....

=============================================

 

[N1atEcon]

Virgin America’s senior management team; former U.S. Transportation Secretary Sam Skinner, who serves on Virgin’s board of directors.

As posted previously, this is the ace in the hole. Nothing will come of this as long as you have somone like this on the board.

 

[Chief Pilot]

Yeah, hardly unbiased reporting considering that was from a Seattle paper.

If you read other reports on subject entirely different conclusions can be made. Just sayin'.

S

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/busrevletters/Virgin America Letter.html

and the Order dismissing (sorry if the format is off...), my emphasis added.

By the way, why would the Unions listed not attempt to organize the employee groups? Is organized labor doing that well that new membership is not needed?

TZ,

It is the Union's job to protect it's members, not try to "enlist" a bunch of new members from a group of employees that clearly does not care about union representation. This is evident by the fact that you and so many other Empire pilots traded one non-union carrier for another. I guess the jets were just too shiny to pass up. How about instead of passing the buck, you organize your employee group and form or join a Union.

CP

 

[tzskipper]

TZ,

It is the Union's job to protect it's members, not try to "enlist" a bunch of new members from a group of employees that clearly does not care about union representation. This is evident by the fact that you and so many other Empire pilots traded one non-union carrier for another. I guess the jets were just too shiny to pass up. How about instead of passing the buck, you organize your employee group and form or join a Union.

CP

With all due respect CP, I have no idea what you are referencing regarding "Empire" pilots, unless you are referring to the many ex-Piedmont/Usair pilots working for VA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Airlines_(1976–1985)). If it helps to clarify, the vast majority of pilots at VA have 10+ years as union members, with many having previously held different positions within. I don't believe that many came to VA to fly a shiny jet, in fact, many came to VA to get out from underneath management that was only interested in lining its' own pockets.

As an aside you may note from the DOT documents, at least at VA, the majority of the BOD, including the CEO, is putting their money on the line by investing in the airline. In addition, the BOD has also approved a 17% ownership position for the employees when a IPO type of event occurs. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.

In closing, the pilots of VA are smart enough, mature enough, and have enough union experience to be able to make any decision regarding representation on their own terms. I don't know if (or when) it will occur, but I do know that the group will do what is best for them.

Regards,

S

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Here is a very comprehensive play by play from the DOT itself:

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/busrevletters/Virgin America Letter.html

CP: What many fail to see is the current makeup of the VA pilot group is heavily comprised of former union members from carriers that have either gone out of business or made a complete mess of themselves on the labor front. I don't think any of us would shy away from organizing if we felt the need. The main reason we haven't so far is two fold: (1) We don't feel the need. (2) We don't see a viable collective bargaining representative out there. It certainly won't be ALPA (for mutual reasons) and we aren't big enough to go it alone like many others have.

Time will tell on the union issue.

 

[Max Powers]

We pilots can't get away from our old nemesis George W. Bush. The Bush Family's right hand man Sam Skinner served as Chief of staff to GHB and Sec. of Transportation to GWB : He also developed the "open skies" policy of the United States that liberalized U.S. international policy and significantly increased the number of international carriers in the U.S. In addition, Mr. Skinner acted as the President's point person in numerous crisis situations, including the Eastern Air Lines strike, the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and the 1991 national rail strike.

When are pilots going to realize Republicans do not support us. Republicans are good at getting my conservative colleagues all worked up with their fear mongering but that's about it.

 

[twobits]

I'm not a democrat or republican - we have a political oligopoly that the justice department would break up, if it were not run by these two parties! However, didn't George Bush allow Comair to strike, and didn't Clinton actually prevent a major airline from striking? Ironic, considering everyone thinks the republicans are bad for labor (and generally they are).