Virgin America to Lease Nine More Planes, Start New Routes

[Tomct]

VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing.

That would include CONTINENTAL....RIGHT??? (Glass House buddy!)



If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field.

Um, Yeah, WE PAY for our planes and maintenance....and believe it or not, we have medical and retirement (401) as well. But thanks for trying to show how much you know....er....DON'T KNOW. LOL

But hey, what do you expect from an airline that is owned and run from a foreign country?

Uh, the DOT just clarified that....FOR A SECOND TIME, thank you....

Now who exactly do you work for or are you to good to let the rest of us here know where you infinite knowledge about aviation comes from?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone!

 

[Ex737Driver]

VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing.

That would include CONTINENTAL....RIGHT??? (Glass House buddy!)



If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field.

Um, Yeah, WE PAY for our planes and maintenance....and believe it or not, we have medical and retirement (401) as well. But thanks for trying to show how much you know....er....DON'T KNOW. LOL

But hey, what do you expect from an airline that is owned and run from a foreign country?

Uh, the DOT just clarified that....FOR A SECOND TIME, thank you....

Now who exactly do you work for or are you to good to let the rest of us here know where you infinite knowledge about aviation comes from?

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone! [/QUOTE]

Yep, it does. We have no choice but to follow to try and make all things equal. Can you explain how your airline is changing how people fly? And awards? Simply eye candy in magazines. We even stick them to the sides of our airplanes. This isn't about johnson comparision but responding to your blast about CAL pilots folding. You start it, back it up. CAL 6 year SN FO pay - $91 hr.VA 6 year FO pay - $61 hr.CAL 6 year SN CA PAY - $142 hr.VA 6 year CA PAY - $120 hr.We could go round and round here with this but who does that benefit?

 

[Ex737Driver]

And Continental, with its $31/hr, no health insurance benefits, first year pay does a great job as well huh? And with the $5/hr raise coming soon, VAs second year pay will be at $60/hr for the A319/320, which is exactly $1/hr less than Continentals blended SN/LN pay rate for second year. And given that Continental has more than ten times the number of pilots VA has, I'd say the Continental guys are doing far more downward pulling on pilot salaries than the folks at VA.

The pilots at the Express/Connection carriers flying RJs have done far more damage to pilot wages over the last 15 years than anybody at a start-up. And yes I am gulity as well, lest you think I am throwing stones in my glass house.

Virgin America/Skybus/JetBlue, etc are capitalism at its finest. And since we are all flag waving, patriotic, captialist loving Americans, we should celebrate these carriers, not bemoan their existence.

The Express/Connection carriers are outsourcing at its finest. We should wish for the end of the Skywests, Shupublitaquas, American Eagles of the world.

I think there should be two rules on here:

1) Anyone who claims to love capitalism should never complain about start-up companies.

2) Anyone who flies, or has flown, for an outsourcing agency (ie. Express/Connection type airline) should never be allowed to preach to others about "raising the bar" or anything similar.

If you are going to pick and choose what you see as negatives, include the positives as well so you don't seem so one sided. Or was that your plan? Don't just compare 2nd year to 2nd year but compare each one. While we are at it, lets compare CAL rates to your airline rates or is there something you wish to hide from the rest of us? With DAL's current contract that was offered to us, as a 12 year 737 FO, I would take a pay cut with DAL +$1. Again, if you're gonna compare, include it all. As for Express carriers, every major is completely responsible for initiating this but the respective pilot groups are responsible for allowing it. By saying they have brought down salaries is ridiculous. The media, oil companies, terrorism, or the flavor of the day has done far more damage to pay at carriers that pilots have. I don't want to see any of the express carriers gone but I do want to see the jets back where they belong at the major level. An express carrier should be a stepping stone to a major as it used to be in the past with turboprops.

........ People need to get off their soap boxes because most of them have a very weak foundation..

Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

 

[Tomct]

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone!

Yep, it does. We have no choice but to follow to try and make all things equal. Can you explain how your airline is changing how people fly? And awards? Simply eye candy in magazines. We even stick them to the sides of our airplanes. This isn't about johnson comparision but responding to your blast about CAL pilots folding. You start it, back it up. CAL 6 year SN FO pay - $91 hr.VA 6 year FO pay - $61 hr.CAL 6 year SN CA PAY - $142 hr.VA 6 year CA PAY - $120 hr.We could go round and round here with this but who does that benefit?[/QUOTE]


I have not said that our pay was great! We did get pay raises and the new 6yr FO rate is 72hr. Capt upgrade is sitting at around 3-4yrs, but could shorten quite soon with the new things coming down the pipe. Not quite to where CAL is, but we will get there soon enough. I am sure our pay will equal JB's in the next two or three years and the Capt 6 yr there is $5 more an hour than you....soooo, you are right...we could go round and round. It is evident that you have no idea what you are talking about with this "Eye Candy thing." Our's is nothing like it, although, if you want to call the lights in the cabin "eye candy" I will agree with you. But guess what, it may seem small, but until you sit in the back of our cabin and EXPERIENCE IT...there is nothing left to say. With all of the OAL pilots we carry (because they LOVE our service and amenities) I am sure there are more than enough who will back what I say. I mean, they fly on US rather than their own airline.

 

[Dizel8]

Hey Tomct,

Yes, I know, you are the target du jour, as a jetblue pilot, I was too, however, most of the stuff coming your way is true.

jetBlue changed air travel, we were different, cool, hip, the love of the in crowd, we were going to build a different company together, we were all gonna be rich, but we always needed to get over some hurdle, real or imaginary. Hell, we kept racking up awards, it was all love and good times.

Well sort of, all the promises just sort of faded away, got put on the back burner. We were the cheapest pilot group by far, hyper productive, the envy of every CEO, but funnily enough, there was never much for the pilots.

Other Majors got hammered, holding the jetblue pilots up as how efficient they had to be to deserve their pay!

Now, the jetblue pilots have gotten the pay closer, although in most other areas we lack woefully behind, retirement, health care, vacation etc.,etc., the fix is always over the horizon.

Well, now we are getting hammered with the VUSA payscale, I think our 6th yr F/O is $23+ above yours, I am certain next time "they" do the review, yours will be included in the comparison and since ours is an average of a few carriers, we will be seen to be above average.

Don't mean to be a downer, your airline winning accolades in great, just remember, you are a big part of that and you need to be able to pay your own bills. "Thanks for all you do" just doesn't seem to work with the power company.

 

[clickclickboom]

The story always repeats itself when you have cheerleaders touting their spectacular new life.



"""' My Pay at Virgin America is better than at my last regional """"




There you go you have guys that were happy making a pennance with horrid working conditions. They come to VA and enjoy that shiny new jet syndrome with a sidestick and think that at $75k they have died and gone to heaven.


Thats the problem you step into a 170,000 jet and compare it to your previous employer..

Then they compare it to everyone else and talk about getting up to JB rates in a few years.. Well guess what Jetblue is STILL 27% behind inflation from their last 2000 pay rates.. The recent raise is being sliced off the hind quarters of JB pilots as we speak in the form of efficiences and flight scheduling manual takebacks.

Dont worry it's not your fault. You get so used to being near homeless and some fatty with a cottage cheese problem comes along and cooks you a meal and just like that you're in love.. Dont worry when you open your eyes someday you will see the truth.

Trust me I know how targeted selection works.. JB could write a case study on it.. We have more cheerleeaders than anyone but less and less everyday thank god..

 

[Tomct]

Dizel, thanks for the info...I hear what you are saying and I completely agree. But as you guys did at JB, we have to get up and running before we can go at them with other things. They have already begun doing some things for the employee group,so that is nice. Only time will tell. Fly Safe!



Click...it has NOTHING to do with "shinny jet syndrome." Funny how everyone called it that at the regionals and now you are using it regarding a National carrier. I made this change purely on QOL and what will be at my disposal in a very short time. I have given enough of my time to a company that took advantage of it constantly, NOW I am Sr. and enjoying seniority that would take me 25 yrs to get anywhere else. I enjoy commuting a short distance rather than across country. If you think airlines are EVER going to catch up with inflation...I think that may be a pipe dream, but I would like to see it before I retire. In the end, it is all about QOL! I have it...and I am not giving it up. ;-)

 

[cmrflyer]

Click, making a pennance???
I presume you are trying to use the word pittance. Maybe you should stick to words and phrases you know and understand.

 

[NEDude]

If you are going to pick and choose what you see as negatives, include the positives as well so you don't seem so one sided. Or was that your plan? Don't just compare 2nd year to 2nd year but compare each one. While we are at it, lets compare CAL rates to your airline rates or is there something you wish to hide from the rest of us? With DAL's current contract that was offered to us, as a 12 year 737 FO, I would take a pay cut with DAL +$1. Again, if you're gonna compare, include it all. As for Express carriers, every major is completely responsible for initiating this but the respective pilot groups are responsible for allowing it. By saying they have brought down salaries is ridiculous. The media, oil companies, terrorism, or the flavor of the day has done far more damage to pay at carriers that pilots have. I don't want to see any of the express carriers gone but I do want to see the jets back where they belong at the major level. An express carrier should be a stepping stone to a major as it used to be in the past with turboprops.
Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

You need to learn what the saying "Pot calling the kettle black" means.

Example: I did not get on anywhere and lecture anyone about where they should work, or tell them that my carrier was better than theirs. Or their carrier was the reason my was bad. I simply said that Continental isn't so great, so dont come here and lecture me.

If I had been out there stating that VA was the best, and nobody should ever work at CAL, then complained about someone else doing that to me, that would be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The fact is Continental has been around for 70+ years. It is a large global carrier with a fleet well over 300 plus airplanes. VA has been operating for less than three years, has 28 airplanes, and does not operate into any of Continental's hubs. Continentals horrid pay and work rules - among the worst in the business - started long before VA was even thought of, and VA has had no bearing on where you are at right now. You have your reasons for accepting that horrid pay and work rules. Was it really all that attractive to you? I never lectured you, or anyone else on taking that job. I never lectured anyone on taking any job, be it with GoJets, Continental, Colgan, Mesa, or any other carrier. I take offense at someone coming on here, having taken a job with the among worst pay and work rules in the industry, then telling me that I cannot take another job because it may hurt them.

Show that you are willing to make a sacrifice for your cause before asking me to. Tell Continental you are quitting because the pay and work rules, go on unemployment and foodstamps. Then perhaps you can come and lecture me about "raising the bar".

 

[andyd]

Why is it that whenever there is even a sliver of good news for any of us that others on here jump on the bashing bandwagon and sling mud?

How about just: Congrats VA, nice to see ya'll doing well. Now, please start SEA-JFK!

 

[Tomct]

Why is it that whenever there is even a sliver of good news for any of us that others on here jump on the bashing bandwagon and sling mud?

How about just: Congrats VA, nice to see ya'll doing well. Now, please start SEA-JFK!

Thanks! We are hoping for that one as well.

 

[clickclickboom]

Click, making a pennance???
I presume you are trying to use the word pittance. Maybe you should stick to words and phrases you know and understand.

I know GOD HELP me if I use the wrong word.. Actually check out the meaning of it.. It applies perfectly in this case now that I think of it >

 

[Ex737Driver]

You need to learn what the saying "Pot calling the kettle black" means.

Example: I did not get on anywhere and lecture anyone about where they should work, or tell them that my carrier was better than theirs. Or their carrier was the reason my was bad. I simply said that Continental isn't so great, so dont come here and lecture me.

If I had been out there stating that VA was the best, and nobody should ever work at CAL, then complained about someone else doing that to me, that would be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The fact is Continental has been around for 70+ years. It is a large global carrier with a fleet well over 300 plus airplanes. VA has been operating for less than three years, has 28 airplanes, and does not operate into any of Continental's hubs. Continentals horrid pay and work rules - among the worst in the business - started long before VA was even thought of, and VA has had no bearing on where you are at right now. You have your reasons for accepting that horrid pay and work rules. Was it really all that attractive to you? I never lectured you, or anyone else on taking that job. I never lectured anyone on taking any job, be it with GoJets, Continental, Colgan, Mesa, or any other carrier. I take offense at someone coming on here, having taken a job with the among worst pay and work rules in the industry, then telling me that I cannot take another job because it may hurt them.

Show that you are willing to make a sacrifice for your cause before asking me to. Tell Continental you are quitting because the pay and work rules, go on unemployment and foodstamps. Then perhaps you can come and lecture me about "raising the bar".

The problem is you didn't do any of those things. You simply came out and blasted CAL for a "concessionary" contract without anything to back it up other than the same tired rant you have spewed before. An yes, you do qualify as the pot here. Your soapbox is just as big as anyone else here. Read the quote next time.

Again you simply state opinions rather than facts here. You seem to have absolutely no idea about our pay rates or work rules other than what you may have read on the forum. If you are going to compare apples to apples the do so but quit with the BS ad-libbing. It's pretty obvious that you have taken a few items from our last concessionary contract and lump the rest with your opionons and the fact is it just isn't so.

If you really want to do a comparrision here, I am more than ready to open the contract and put it against any other contract out there. I am not saying CAL is the best but it is far above where you seem to place it, which was the basis for your first post.

Why would I quit a carrier that has nowhere to go but up from the last contract?

 

[NEDude]

The problem is you didn't do any of those things. You simply came out and blasted CAL for a "concessionary" contract without anything to back it up other than the same tired rant you have spewed before. An yes, you do qualify as the pot here. Your soapbox is just as big as anyone else here. Read the quote next time.

Again you simply state opinions rather than facts here. You seem to have absolutely no idea about our pay rates or work rules other than what you may have read on the forum. If you are going to compare apples to apples the do so but quit with the BS ad-libbing. It's pretty obvious that you have taken a few items from our last concessionary contract and lump the rest with your opionons and the fact is it just isn't so.

If you really want to do a comparrision here, I am more than ready to open the contract and put it against any other contract out there. I am not saying CAL is the best but it is far above where you seem to place it, which was the basis for your first post.

Why would I quit a carrier that has nowhere to go but up from the last contract?

Okay, tell me the facts - What is starting pay at CAL? How long before health benefits are available? What is second year pay? What are reserve rules like? Does the company have the right to have rolling days off?

The point I have tried to make is that you came here and started throwing stones from your soapbox. It was not the other way around. You cannot fathom that someone may actually come on and stick up for themselves and point out the hypocrisy in your actions versus arguments. I have never claimed that VA had the best pay and work rules, I have never claimed they were better than CAL, I have never lectured you about making a sacrifice to benefit me. I have pointed out that you took a job that was not the best in the industry for whatever reasons seemed to benefit you and nobody lectured you about it. So don't come here and do that to us at VA.

Why I should I make a sacrifice, bypass a significant pay raise for me, and a potential opportunity at the ground floor of a growing company, to benefit you?

What sacrifice did you make for yourself?

What sacrifice did you make for me?

Did you tell CAL to pound sand because it wasn't the best contract in the industry? Or did you apply because of the potential long-term opportunity at a large global airline?

 

[Ex737Driver]

Okay, tell me the facts - What is starting pay at CAL? How long before health benefits are available? What is second year pay? What are reserve rules like? Does the company have the right to have rolling days off?

The point I have tried to make is that you came here and started throwing stones from your soapbox. It was not the other way around. You cannot fathom that someone may actually come on and stick up for themselves and point out the hypocrisy in your actions versus arguments. I have never claimed that VA had the best pay and work rules, I have never claimed they were better than CAL, I have never lectured you about making a sacrifice to benefit me. I have pointed out that you took a job that was not the best in the industry for whatever reasons seemed to benefit you and nobody lectured you about it. So don't come here and do that to us at VA.

Why I should I make a sacrifice, bypass a significant pay raise for me, and a potential opportunity at the ground floor of a growing company, to benefit you?

What sacrifice did you make for yourself?

What sacrifice did you make for me?

Did you tell CAL to pound sand because it wasn't the best contract in the industry? Or did you apply because of the potential long-term opportunity at a large global airline?

The only stone throwing are the ones I have picked up after you threw them. Second year pay is simply that, pay for your second year. It ain't great but guess what, it goes away after the second year. Imagine that! Will you still on your rant after our next contract is signed?

I am extremely gratefull that you never had to work under a concessionary contract or a bankrupt contract or have been furloughed. Count yourself lucky.

Nobody here ever asked you for a sacrifice. If you want to keep working at wherever you work, good for you. The original point is that VA, like any other start-up, including PE or NYAir, does that same thing, quotes the same rhetoric, and promises the same BS. Were different, were just getting started, we haven't been around as long as you have, etc. In the end what do you have; Another LCC, looking to try and pick the low-hanging fruit in choice markets because some douschebag CEO decided that they needed to start another airline.

Question now is if you think CAL is so bad, why aren't you working for DAL, FDX, UPS, AMR, or JBLU? Why VA? And please don't come on here and tell us all how VA is going to change the way poeple fly.