Virgin America to Lease Nine More Planes, Start New Routes

[Ex737Driver]

A Continental guy is giving VA grief! LOL LOL That is the FUNNIEST thing I have ever heard. How about this "LittleMeat," just try and do your OWN surviving and lets see how well you boys do with this next contract.....my prediction.....you will all FOLD like a house of cards. You are PATHETIC! Why don't you do a little airline history studying before you start throwing stones there huh....(ie how many guys crossed a picket line and are STILL flying for CAL?)

I think our "survival" is determined by the entire current pilot group as a whole and not one small demographic from 1983/84. Can you not get an original line anymore other than to use the scab one? Now that's pathetic. VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing. If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field. But hey, what do you expect from an airline that is owned and run from a foreign country? Now who exactly do you work for or are you to good to let the rest of us here know where you infinite knowledge about aviation comes from?

 

[Splert]

And Continental, with its $31/hr, no health insurance benefits, first year pay does a great job as well huh? And with the $5/hr raise coming soon, VAs second year pay will be at $60/hr for the A319/320, which is exactly $1/hr less than Continentals blended SN/LN pay rate for second year. And given that Continental has more than ten times the number of pilots VA has, I'd say the Continental guys are doing far more downward pulling on pilot salaries than the folks at VA.

The pilots at the Express/Connection carriers flying RJs have done far more damage to pilot wages over the last 15 years than anybody at a start-up. And yes I am gulity as well, lest you think I am throwing stones in my glass house.

Virgin America/Skybus/JetBlue, etc are capitalism at its finest. And since we are all flag waving, patriotic, captialist loving Americans, we should celebrate these carriers, not bemoan their existence.

The Express/Connection carriers are outsourcing at its finest. We should wish for the end of the Skywests, Shupublitaquas, American Eagles of the world.

I think there should be two rules on here:

1) Anyone who claims to love capitalism should never complain about start-up companies.

2) Anyone who flies, or has flown, for an outsourcing agency (ie. Express/Connection type airline) should never be allowed to preach to others about "raising the bar" or anything similar.

I love the you suck and we suck less arguments.

 

[NEDude]

I love the you suck and we suck less arguments.

My thoughts exactly! We all do what we feel is in our own best interests whether it be flying an RJ on a mainline route while mainline pilots are furloughed, or taking a job at Continental and their rotten pay scale/work rules, or taking a chance on a new start-up like VA. People need to get off their soap boxes because most of them have a very weak foundation.

 

[BoilerUP]

VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing. If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field.

The sooner pilots as a whole learn that nothing in life or business is "fair", the better...

 

[NEDude]

The sooner pilots as a whole learn that nothing in life or business is "fair", the better...

Nothing in business is fair. All companies, big or small, established or start-up, exploit every rule they can. Large companies can have hundreds of lawyers and other people examining ways they can exploit a loophole, and even more lobbying to change the rules in their favor (example - the ATA). The old saying in sports - If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying - applies to business as well. Get your head out of the sand if you think otherwise.

The problem we have here is that FI is full of people who for one reason or another think their poverty level wage paying, no benefit providing, company is somehow the lone honest company in existence. And their reason for accepting a job with such working conditions is somehow better than your reason for accepting a job at some other company.

 

[Tomct]

VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing.

That would include CONTINENTAL....RIGHT??? (Glass House buddy!)



If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field.

Um, Yeah, WE PAY for our planes and maintenance....and believe it or not, we have medical and retirement (401) as well. But thanks for trying to show how much you know....er....DON'T KNOW. LOL

But hey, what do you expect from an airline that is owned and run from a foreign country?

Uh, the DOT just clarified that....FOR A SECOND TIME, thank you....

Now who exactly do you work for or are you to good to let the rest of us here know where you infinite knowledge about aviation comes from?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone!

 

[Ex737Driver]

VA is not using capitalism by the way. They are using every underhanded technique they can get away with, just like every other airline in this country is doing.

That would include CONTINENTAL....RIGHT??? (Glass House buddy!)



If VA or any other start-up wanted to do it fairly, they would be paying their leases and mx, providing benefits and retirement to their employees, and competing on a fair playing field.

Um, Yeah, WE PAY for our planes and maintenance....and believe it or not, we have medical and retirement (401) as well. But thanks for trying to show how much you know....er....DON'T KNOW. LOL

But hey, what do you expect from an airline that is owned and run from a foreign country?

Uh, the DOT just clarified that....FOR A SECOND TIME, thank you....

Now who exactly do you work for or are you to good to let the rest of us here know where you infinite knowledge about aviation comes from?

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone! [/QUOTE]

Yep, it does. We have no choice but to follow to try and make all things equal. Can you explain how your airline is changing how people fly? And awards? Simply eye candy in magazines. We even stick them to the sides of our airplanes. This isn't about johnson comparision but responding to your blast about CAL pilots folding. You start it, back it up. CAL 6 year SN FO pay - $91 hr.VA 6 year FO pay - $61 hr.CAL 6 year SN CA PAY - $142 hr.VA 6 year CA PAY - $120 hr.We could go round and round here with this but who does that benefit?

 

[Ex737Driver]

And Continental, with its $31/hr, no health insurance benefits, first year pay does a great job as well huh? And with the $5/hr raise coming soon, VAs second year pay will be at $60/hr for the A319/320, which is exactly $1/hr less than Continentals blended SN/LN pay rate for second year. And given that Continental has more than ten times the number of pilots VA has, I'd say the Continental guys are doing far more downward pulling on pilot salaries than the folks at VA.

The pilots at the Express/Connection carriers flying RJs have done far more damage to pilot wages over the last 15 years than anybody at a start-up. And yes I am gulity as well, lest you think I am throwing stones in my glass house.

Virgin America/Skybus/JetBlue, etc are capitalism at its finest. And since we are all flag waving, patriotic, captialist loving Americans, we should celebrate these carriers, not bemoan their existence.

The Express/Connection carriers are outsourcing at its finest. We should wish for the end of the Skywests, Shupublitaquas, American Eagles of the world.

I think there should be two rules on here:

1) Anyone who claims to love capitalism should never complain about start-up companies.

2) Anyone who flies, or has flown, for an outsourcing agency (ie. Express/Connection type airline) should never be allowed to preach to others about "raising the bar" or anything similar.

If you are going to pick and choose what you see as negatives, include the positives as well so you don't seem so one sided. Or was that your plan? Don't just compare 2nd year to 2nd year but compare each one. While we are at it, lets compare CAL rates to your airline rates or is there something you wish to hide from the rest of us? With DAL's current contract that was offered to us, as a 12 year 737 FO, I would take a pay cut with DAL +$1. Again, if you're gonna compare, include it all. As for Express carriers, every major is completely responsible for initiating this but the respective pilot groups are responsible for allowing it. By saying they have brought down salaries is ridiculous. The media, oil companies, terrorism, or the flavor of the day has done far more damage to pay at carriers that pilots have. I don't want to see any of the express carriers gone but I do want to see the jets back where they belong at the major level. An express carrier should be a stepping stone to a major as it used to be in the past with turboprops.

........ People need to get off their soap boxes because most of them have a very weak foundation..

Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

 

[Tomct]

Yeah, I work for Virgin, it is a Great company and we have a good time. And by the way, we ENJOY going to work! We have a great group of people and are taking it to a whole new level.

Like has been said on this thread, we are ALL our own worst enemy. I will do whatever I can to support my family....baring crossing a picket line...the pay here is better than I was making as a Captain at my regional. I invite all jumpseaters to come ride on us and see how our company is changing airline travel. You are all welcome! And for those that don't think so....look at all the awards we have been racking up since entering the airline business. We are only going to get bigger and better!
Fly Safe everyone!

Yep, it does. We have no choice but to follow to try and make all things equal. Can you explain how your airline is changing how people fly? And awards? Simply eye candy in magazines. We even stick them to the sides of our airplanes. This isn't about johnson comparision but responding to your blast about CAL pilots folding. You start it, back it up. CAL 6 year SN FO pay - $91 hr.VA 6 year FO pay - $61 hr.CAL 6 year SN CA PAY - $142 hr.VA 6 year CA PAY - $120 hr.We could go round and round here with this but who does that benefit?[/QUOTE]


I have not said that our pay was great! We did get pay raises and the new 6yr FO rate is 72hr. Capt upgrade is sitting at around 3-4yrs, but could shorten quite soon with the new things coming down the pipe. Not quite to where CAL is, but we will get there soon enough. I am sure our pay will equal JB's in the next two or three years and the Capt 6 yr there is $5 more an hour than you....soooo, you are right...we could go round and round. It is evident that you have no idea what you are talking about with this "Eye Candy thing." Our's is nothing like it, although, if you want to call the lights in the cabin "eye candy" I will agree with you. But guess what, it may seem small, but until you sit in the back of our cabin and EXPERIENCE IT...there is nothing left to say. With all of the OAL pilots we carry (because they LOVE our service and amenities) I am sure there are more than enough who will back what I say. I mean, they fly on US rather than their own airline.

 

[Dizel8]

Hey Tomct,

Yes, I know, you are the target du jour, as a jetblue pilot, I was too, however, most of the stuff coming your way is true.

jetBlue changed air travel, we were different, cool, hip, the love of the in crowd, we were going to build a different company together, we were all gonna be rich, but we always needed to get over some hurdle, real or imaginary. Hell, we kept racking up awards, it was all love and good times.

Well sort of, all the promises just sort of faded away, got put on the back burner. We were the cheapest pilot group by far, hyper productive, the envy of every CEO, but funnily enough, there was never much for the pilots.

Other Majors got hammered, holding the jetblue pilots up as how efficient they had to be to deserve their pay!

Now, the jetblue pilots have gotten the pay closer, although in most other areas we lack woefully behind, retirement, health care, vacation etc.,etc., the fix is always over the horizon.

Well, now we are getting hammered with the VUSA payscale, I think our 6th yr F/O is $23+ above yours, I am certain next time "they" do the review, yours will be included in the comparison and since ours is an average of a few carriers, we will be seen to be above average.

Don't mean to be a downer, your airline winning accolades in great, just remember, you are a big part of that and you need to be able to pay your own bills. "Thanks for all you do" just doesn't seem to work with the power company.