Virgin America petitions NMB

[Flyer1015]

Wait, wait, let me get my popcorn..........

 

[StarChecker]

You might take a hint from the Jetblue Pilot Group as to why the Union thing here has failed not once, but twice. It started with the personal attacks and lies from a very small group of very vocal pilots. It started just like these past few posts and if you keep up your senseless attacks, your outcome will be the same...

Ugh...


Speaking of company hacks.....

 

[slavenaway]

You might take a hint from the Jetblue Pilot Group as to why the Union thing here has failed not once, but twice. It started with the personal attacks and lies from a very small group of very vocal pilots. It started just like these past few posts and if you keep up your senseless attacks, your outcome will be the same...

If this stuff was going on in real discussions on the VAPA board, I might think you are right. Contrary to what you may think, the members on the VAPA board are having some very insightful discussions while maintaining a respectful atmosphere.

Most of the VA pilots don't regard FI as any authoritative entity. Most of the people on this board are quick to jump you for just about anything. One may argue that you don't need enemies if you are a registered member of FI.

I will vouch for Mark, though. He is married and not single and for anyone to suggest otherwise is playing unfair. You can make an argument, though, if a pilot sells his house in Cleveland for 100k and buys in the Bay Area while living off one salary (VA CP) he has something else paying the bills. I find it hard to believe that Ryan, Kiwi and ACA provided that something. Not that there is anything wrong with having that something...

 

[Flyer1015]

I will vouch for Mark, though. He is married and not single and for anyone to suggest otherwise is playing unfair. You can make an argument, though, if a pilot sells his house in Cleveland for 100k and buys in the Bay Area while living off one salary (VA CP) he has something else paying the bills. I find it hard to believe that Ryan, Kiwi and ACA provided that something. Not that there is anything wrong with having that something...

A working wife?

I thought Mark is married with kids. It takes two salaries to own anything liveable for a family in the SFO bay area. Lets keep it factual, that attack on Mark is inaccurate.

 

[ClrdForOption]

A working wife?

I thought Mark is married with kids. It takes two salaries to own anything liveable for a family in the SFO bay area. Lets keep it factual, that attack on Mark is inaccurate.

Sorry about that... but, remember, a cat isn't asking if it 'can haz cheeseburger' either - everything that I saw/posted was to illustrate the F&H/MWW rhetoric you should expect. But, if that's the best argument... that he's married and it's expensive to live in SFO, well... I don't know what to say.

In the end, it's not about Mark, it's about the rhetoric and the message. And the spin you can expect from management. (For instance, young people shouldn't be paying for 'old fogies' insurance... you are young and healthy - and you'll be that way forever!)

 

[LoveGun]

A working wife?

I thought Mark is married with kids. It takes two salaries to own anything liveable for a family in the SFO bay area. Lets keep it factual, that attack on Mark is inaccurate.

I'm a VX captain. We just bought a bay area house. My wife doesn't work. We have a kid and another on the way. We have had zero outside help -- no trust fund, no rich parents. The bay area is pricey, but if you are willing to give up owning a monster house, it is possible to live here on just a captain salary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a yes vote. Our pay needs to go up. Just saying that you don't have to commute as a captain at VX. All you need to do is talk your wife into a smallish house and not be buried under car payments and credit cards.

 

[Flyer1015]

I'm a VX captain. We just bought a bay area house. My wife doesn't work. We have a kid and another on the way. We have had zero outside help -- no trust fund, no rich parents. The bay area is pricey, but if you are willing to give up owning a monster house, it is possible to live here on just a captain salary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a yes vote. Our pay needs to go up. Just saying that you don't have to commute as a captain at VX. All you need to do is talk your wife into a smallish house and not be buried under car payments and credit cards.

Then you're probably in the East Bay, at least 1 hr or more away from SFO airport, having to cross 1 (or two) toll bridge to get to work. Anyway, what guarantee did VAPA provide about a pay increase? So far, they've only disclosed a 2-3% paycut from us for dues. When do you think you'd see a pay raise as a result of VAPA negotiations? And, do you think that would come sooner or later than the company's (almost) annual pay increase for pilots? Without leverage, there isn't much to go on. There's certainly no shortage of pilots wanting to work at VA under the current package deal, so what's to give management incentive to negotiate and agree with VAPA? I digress, though. I just don't know enough about VAPA to be able to vote yes.

 

[bocaflyer]

Then you're probably in the East Bay, at least 1 hr or more away from SFO airport, having to cross 1 (or two) toll bridge to get to work. Anyway, what guarantee did VAPA provide about a pay increase? So far, they've only disclosed a 2-3% paycut from us for dues. When do you think you'd see a pay raise as a result of VAPA negotiations? And, do you think that would come sooner or later than the company's (almost) annual pay increase for pilots? Without leverage, there isn't much to go on. There's certainly no shortage of pilots wanting to work at VA under the current package deal, so what's to give management incentive to negotiate and agree with VAPA? I digress, though. I just don't know enough about VAPA to be able to vote yes.

So far VAPA has guaranteed nothing, just like SWA, UPS, FEDEX, DELTA and UNITED unions promised nothing. They have promised to stay non-confrontational and negotiate with respect. The company has guaranteed they will purposely drag out the negotiations and that our relationship with them will suffer. The companies words got me more worried than anything VAPA has or has not said. The truth is though, nobody can guarantee anything. We all throw money at our 401K and fidelity has never guaranteed anything either. Yet we try to have a say in our future don't we?

Everyone has had differing experiences, and normally that shapes their views. I have had 3 great experiences with unions; including the dreaded IBT. Worked great for us while we needed them. The people running VA are far smarter than I am, and when they invest over a million in Ford Harrison to prevent a CBA and make a website better than any company intranet site, I can't help but thinking they know exactly why they are doing that. They are doing it because just the CHANCE to prevent the union will be CHEAPER for them than us ending up with a CBA. To me, that is managements own admission that a CBA will make my career better in the long run with VAPA. No business man will spend millions to prevent something if he knows it's not going to be a good return on his investment. Management, not VAPA has convinced me to vote yes with their reactions and words to VAPA.

Nearly every Established airline (certainly the ones we all want to work at) all needed to resort to unions historically. I don't see VAPA as anything different than the need for unions at all of the "career" airlines in north America. It's natural progression IMO. No disrespect intended because my views differ from yours.

 

[ClrdForOption]

So far VAPA has guaranteed nothing, just like SWA, UPS, FEDEX, DELTA and UNITED unions promised nothing. They have promised to stay non-confrontational and negotiate with respect. The company has guaranteed they will purposely drag out the negotiations and that our relationship with them will suffer. The companies words got me more worried than anything VAPA has or has not said. The truth is though, nobody can guarantee anything. We all throw money at our 401K and fidelity has never guaranteed anything either. Yet we try to have a say in our future don't we?

Everyone has had differing experiences, and normally that shapes their views. I have had 3 great experiences with unions; including the dreaded IBT. Worked great for us while we needed them. The people running VA are far smarter than I am, and when they invest over a million in Ford Harrison to prevent a CBA and make a website better than any company intranet site, I can't help but thinking they know exactly why they are doing that. They are doing it because just the CHANCE to prevent the union will be CHEAPER for them than us ending up with a CBA. To me, that is managements own admission that a CBA will make my career better in the long run with VAPA. No business man will spend millions to prevent something if he knows it's not going to be a good return on his investment. Management, not VAPA has convinced me to vote yes with their reactions and words to VAPA.

Nearly every Established airline (certainly the ones we all want to work at) all needed to resort to unions historically. I don't see VAPA as anything different than the need for unions at all of the "career" airlines in north America. It's natural progression IMO. No disrespect intended because my views differ from yours.

Genius. Please call everyone you know at BlueJet and tell them exactly what you posted above. (and... I guess that you should tell everyone at VA also. )

 

[RJLoser]

Wait, wait, let me get my popcorn..........

You and a union again....classic!