Virgin America Groupon offer- this weeks' sign the apocalypse is upon us.

[ualdriver]

There's a reason Virgin gets bashed so much on here. It is because some of us understand history, have lived through it, and don't want to be doomed to repeat it.

So here's the story. Yet another non-union, undercutting airline has started up and is now encroaching upon established competitors. When have we EVER seen this before? And of course, us students of airline history know that this ALWAYS turns out well for those of us that are actually trying to do something about trying to raise pay and work rules in the business. I mean, when Frontier, JetBlue, Valujet got big, wages went UP in the industry, right? So nothing to worry about here, I guess, either. A growing, thriving Virgin (and it's inevitable copycats currently being dreamed up) is good for all of us! Nothing to see here. And of course, as another Virgin pilot stated, it would be "selfish" to ask for anything more.

Don't forget that when you come back to compare hourly rates to United's to "prove me wrong" that you include our 16% B&C fund, our zero dollars per month short and long term disability, and our zero dollars per month health insurance cost.....and of course we are in contract negotiations right now to improve upon what we already have. Any idea when the Virgin pilots will try to negotiate an industry leading contract to show us all how it's done?

And I love the way a Virgin pilot likes to bash YONITED. Seems to me there are quite a few Virgin pilots needing to ride YONITED to get to work as they likely can't afford to live in the Bay area on Virgin wages. I fly quite often out of SFO and unfortunately have to honor our jumpseat agreement. However us YONITED pilots have a GREAT sense of humor. If you would like to share more YONITED jokes with us when many of you come to ask for a ride, please do.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Best FI Post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Too True!

 

[Chairman]

Hey UAL while you guys are working in your contract make sure second year pay starts at a year from DOH. Besure to get the pay to something livable and don't forget longevity pay for those of us who are pretty happy to still be flying.

 

[ualdriver]

Hey UAL while you guys are working in your contract make sure second year pay starts at a year from DOH. Besure to get the pay to something livable and don't forget longevity pay for those of us who are pretty happy to still be flying.

This isn't a Virgin pilot telling me to "move the line forward," is it? Correct me if I am wrong. If it is, I guess I should ask when I can expect that from you?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Hi ualdriver,

I can take the bashing with a smile, after all, I wear a black shirt to work!

I was mostly commenting on the fact any Virgin threads on the majors board asking for hiring info get quickly moved, while bashing threads stay here. Just pointing out the FI bias.

Thanks for the education on unionism. I'm kinda new here, started commercial flying just about the time Carter and Kahn did away with the CAB, walked the picket line in 85 in support of my union brothers at ORD rather than interview at UAL, flew as captain on the very first UAX flight in June of 86 with Air Willie and got to start over after UAL bought & sold us in 92/93. I got to repeat the process in 06 after ACA got dropped as a UAX carrier and did the fun but disastrous Indy thing. I have no love for UAL as a company, but do have friends there that I wish well. I also have friends at CAL, and quite frankly the mess you are staring at in getting that integration working is a much bigger threat than a couple of flights a day out of ORD from us. After talking with my CAL and UAL friends, you guys need to go fishing or something, and bring lots of beer along and talk things out.

However, your reasoning is entirely self serving, how my lack of a contract may affect your future. Unfortunately, ALPA will never be on the property here after the battle it waged to try to stop VA from getting certified. The IBT is a non starter as well, which leaves in house the only option. So far there is little reason to get that going with the small pilot group size we now have and the generally fair treatment we get. I predict it will be quite some time before anything happens here to cause a union on the property, so you will just have to live with that info and move on.

As to your veiled jumpseat threat, keep in mind we give out the seat unrestricted, first come, first served, no priority system after our own guys, to you as well. I gave one of your very tired 400 drivers a ride home just a few days ago and made darn sure he got a good seat and any food and movies he wanted. That's just common courtesy. He doesn't make the board room decisions in ORD anymore than I do in SFO, and I have been treated well by you guys which I greatly appreciate.

I am quite sure UAL and AA will be able to hold their own in the ORD markets, just as I am sure we will be able to draw a reasonable share in them. You have hundreds of route combinations and frequent flier miles to dangle to your faithful, all we have are modern IFE systems, good food and hot looking friendly helpful FAs. Seems like a fair fight to me!

I hope you do get back to contract 2000. It's such a miserable atmosphere over there you need some compensation for enduring the pain.

Best wishes,

Ralph

 

[Tomct]

There's a reason Virgin gets bashed so much on here. It is because some of us understand history, have lived through it, and don't want to be doomed to repeat it.

So here's the story. Yet another non-union, undercutting airline has started up and is now encroaching upon established competitors. When have we EVER seen this before? And of course, us students of airline history know that this ALWAYS turns out well for those of us that are actually trying to do something about trying to raise pay and work rules in the business. I mean, when Frontier, JetBlue, Valujet got big, wages went UP in the industry, right? So nothing to worry about here, I guess, either. A growing, thriving Virgin (and it's inevitable copycats currently being dreamed up) is good for all of us! Nothing to see here. And of course, as another Virgin pilot stated, it would be "selfish" to ask for anything more.

Don't forget that when you come back to compare hourly rates to United's to "prove me wrong" that you include our 16% B&C fund, our zero dollars per month short and long term disability, and our zero dollars per month health insurance cost.....and of course we are in contract negotiations right now to improve upon what we already have. Any idea when the Virgin pilots will try to negotiate an industry leading contract to show us all how it's done?

And I love the way a Virgin pilot likes to bash YONITED. Seems to me there are quite a few Virgin pilots needing to ride YONITED to get to work as they likely can't afford to live in the Bay area on Virgin wages. I fly quite often out of SFO and unfortunately have to honor our jumpseat agreement. However us YONITED pilots have a GREAT sense of humor. If you would like to share more YONITED jokes with us when many of you come to ask for a ride, please do.

So let me get this straight, you get your panties in a wad when someone uses the YONITED term, and oh by the way, we give plenty o rides to your boys as well, so just ease up there poncho...if you can't take the mud slinging here, then stop looking at the posts. It's a pilot "B!tch" board and as such, that is mostly what you will read here on FI. Everyone flashing their ego's. And why would I ever want to live in the bay area....no thanks! I enjoy the short commute to work and the nice looking ladies in the back. I have used UAL for a ride now and again and I appreciate it as well, I in turn, give rides to numerous UAL boys and am glad to do it.

Bill, the only carrier out there that pays cash for their planes is SWA so you are right there with us in your...how did you say it...."no money down leased jet..." so pipe down. I think it is hilarious how you still use the term "shiny jet," is yours a shiny jet too? No, wait, unless you work for DAL, UAL, or SWA it is ok, but everyone else is "SJS," give me a break. Also, I'm going to need you to come into work on Saturday.....MMMmmmkay?

Googs...they are improving, slowly but surely. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Wow, were we ever this arrogant? We were pretty full of ourselves early on but this just takes the cake. Maybe it's a west coast thing.

That's nice and all but, more importantly, how are your pay and work rules?

Someday, you will realize past your shiny new big jet type rating, that food needs to be put on the table and whoring yourself out for Sir Richard and his lapdog Cush, won't pay the bills. They are using your trash wages and workrules to make themselves rich while you walk around thinking you are cool with embroidered luggage and black pilot shirts. Edgy DUDE.....That's Wicked Awesome!

If you survive....the last laugh will be yours...until you turn a real profit and stay in a city pair longer than 3 months, just shut your cornhole and quit acting like you are the best tennis team in Alaska.

What else can I add?

Any idea when the Virgin pilots will try to negotiate an industry leading contract to show us all how it's done?

....Seems to me there are quite a few Virgin pilots needing to ride YONITED to get to work as they likely can't afford to live in the Bay area on Virgin wages. I fly quite often out of SFO and unfortunately have to honor our jumpseat agreement.

Forget it, driver. Irony doesn't work on the intellectually and/or morally deficient

This isn't a Virgin pilot telling me to "move the line forward," is it? Correct me if I am wrong. If it is, I guess I should ask when I can expect that from you?

The twelfth of NEVER?

 

[Chairman]

This isn't a Virgin pilot telling me to "move the line forward," is it? Correct me if I am wrong. If it is, I guess I should ask when I can expect that from you?

Virgin Guy,1437,Furlough Brother.......I really don't give a dam what you want to call me...Been there done that! And really don't need your jump seat I will right my own pass thank you!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

TomCt

My reference is to the fact that your airline has a "Sign and Drive" deal with Airbus. No cash needed, full airbus financing.

Prove me wrong.

 

[ualdriver]

Virgin Guy,1437,Furlough Brother.......I really don't give a dam what you want to call me...Been there done that! And really don't need your jump seat I will right my own pass thank you!

It's not my jumpseat. There's no veiled threat. However, if you're going to talk trash about United (your peers, not necessarily you) then I hope they would have the sack to say it to the faces of the guys who make their employment at VA possible without having to uproot their families. They certainly can't afford to live in SFO on VA salaries.

You're a furloughee......so......are you hoping that VA's new service to Chicago is successful? As we negotiate our new contract, do you think we should cut our Airbus wages, work rules, benefits, and retirement down to VA levels so that we can compete and fight instead of retreat, leaving less Airbus jobs for furloughees to come back to? Longevity is expensive and would put us at a competitive disadvantage to airlines like VA, no?

 

[b82rez]

There were no $7 tickets. For $7 dollars you received $77 dollars off your fair!

Seriously??

 

[ualdriver]

Ralph

It is unfortunate you had a dotted career. Maybe I will too. Well, actually I won't because I would find something else to do if United dies. I wouldn't bother with what you went through.

However, if you have been around the block as much as you claim, then you know exactly why VA guys take the beatings they do. It is an industry that is tired of having a group of pilots fighting to make improvements while another undermines those very efforts. Your group is doing the SAME exact thing the LCC's of the mid to late 1990's were doing, but now we have the benefit of history to realize the damage that causes to the profession. You and your peers can rationalize it any way you want. As long as airlines like VA compete on the basis of "who can pay their pilots the least" instead of the other things you mention (schedules, FF programs, etc) then we as a profession are doomed to repeat what has happened this past decade. The JetBlue pilots now "get it.". The Valujet pilots (now Airtran) "get it" now. The VA pilots...well, not so much. Is it unreasonable to expect the VA guys to stop undermining the rest of us?

 

[Chairman]

I don't remember to many being concerned when I was making much less to start at UAL, or when I didn't get a hotel or per diem in training. So I guess the bar was set low enough for VA to start with. As for longevity, yeah I know its expensive but nothing like Scope and Retro pay but I don't read to many on the UAL forums worrying about the competitive disadvantage of those. Lets see we have 34 airplanes UNICAL has what over 700? We at VA know what needs to be improved as you do at UAL. Just because we don't air it here is not different that you touting that we add in the 16% B/C fund contribution to a salary comparison then go on the UAL forum and scream how everyone will vote no without Scope and retro and will strike if need be.

Fly Safe,

Chairman

 

[waveflyer]

C-man, sometimes to is spelled with two "o"'s. Just saying.

UAL - its just about the lamest, irresponsible, irrational argument to put any blame on VX for your situation.
SWA has been carrying the water on pay - as an LCC- for 10 years now.
Maybe "yonited" is floundering bc you have incompetent and extremely selfish managers....? And that greedy, selfish, look out for #1 mentality has infiltrated just about every part of the organization- especially the ALPA so called union - (how many ways could you all be fractured against each other? Hell- half your domestic flights are outsourced!)

United and their outsourcing has done way more damage to the industry in the past 10-12 years than anything VX is doing-
But keep looking for excuses.

We'd all love it though if the sellout "legacy" pilots would just shut up and concentrate on their own issues.

Stop being the proud, fat middle aged man still bragging about his athletic accomplishments in college- bc you guys haven't done sh/t to improve this industry in a really, really long time

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I knew we could draw Wave into this.....

So the great and powerful water carrying SWAPA guys are the heroes huh? Sure, My airline was the highest paid until 10 years ago....you want to blame outsourcing, I blame LCC startups with no benefits and no workrules with garbage pay.

Walk down memory lane with me junior, it's gonna be hard to remember because your parents were still writing checks to Riddle when this went down so bear with me........When we were doing our own negotiations in the 90's, all I could hear was how much the SWA guy worked and how they don't have a pension and how they get paid by the trip and if there's a delay or weather OR THEY GO INTO HOLDING, they get paid the same. Sorry, tough crap. Well guess who decided that it was a good idea to try and impose that on the legacies? I'll save you the drama....you know every management team thought that they could get that same undercutting sweet deal courtesy of the Herb turds.

All I have heard over the past 15 years is how they (pointing the finger at the latest flash in the pan startup) do things cheaper and how we must adapt to compete. DO WE REALLY? or is there something else in play here......it's startups who are dragging this profession down not you WAVE holding this industry up.....

You too will fall....

Not fat, just ran a Tri.....I am middle aged....but damn happy I can say my career has had autothrottles and VNAV and a history of getting paid when delayed.