Virgin America furlough?

[FlyinPiker]

As for the pay....Do you know/remember what the pay at SWA was then they started? No where near what they are now. There was a reason SWA was coined the "Wal-Mart" airline.

Pilot pay is an extremely small percentage of an airline's daily expenses.

Pretty weak using SWA as a reason to justify pay rates. VA isn't paying those rates to "protect" the airline and become the next Southwest, they are paying them because they know they can. Heck they could have paid 20% less and they'd still have a line of people out the door waiting to sign up.

With all of the guys/girls about ready to hit the street, and all of the guys/girls now stuck at the regionals looking to move on I don't see how pay is not going to continue to decrease every time another startup comes along ( or the industry as whole finds a new reason to point their finger at something and say "we're doomed!"...but either way the start up will always pay less because they can, not because they have to).

You can use Southwest/FedEx stories all day long, but how many carriers have you seen do the same thing in the last 20 years? Of the few successful startups out there ask some of the JetBlue guys and espeacially AirTran guys how happy they've been with their pay.

 

[Mud]

And how many ATA & Aloha guys has your company hired?

12 to date from Aloha, about the same from ATA. We are also starting to pick up guys from F9 and the like, and I've heard (not seen personally) from training that the apps from legacy pilots are starting to build.

Doubt we'll furlough as I just finished my type and they want me to do IOE asap as they are so short of pilots. Slight reduction in the fall but then ORD starts.

Everybody always bashes VA FO pay but at least we get a type out of the gate. If VA were to go under, it might help me overseas where my once beloved ALPA told me to go right before they headed off to their tee times at Moanalua Country Club. They were less than zero help.

Buyer beware, ALPA no longer has any teeth. They can't and won't protect you from big management's decisions. Your MEC's will help you out if you screw up and that sort of thing, but they have no ability to influence the big picture. IMHO every one of our jobs is at risk (sans SWA, FDX, UPS) but don't think for a moment it is ALPA who will save you.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Buyer beware, ALPA no longer has any teeth. They can't and won't protect you from big management's decisions. Your MEC's will help you out if you screw up and that sort of thing, but they have no ability to influence the big picture. IMHO every one of our jobs is at risk (sans SWA, FDX, UPS) but don't think for a moment it is ALPA who will save you.

Not that ALPA deserves any awards, but if you think ALPA pilots have gotten raped over the last 7 years with them I would hate to see what management would have been capable of without.

 

[PinnacleDude]

As I said in another post, it does not bother me so much that the VA guys and gals are paid poorly, but that the prevailing attitude is that they don't care to acknowledge the problem or work to fix the glaring issues. The "I got mine" attitude seems to prevail there. Hey different strokes for different airlines. I'll give you a ride and be very nice and polite, but that doesn't mean I respect you.

I do respect the F9 guys, the AirTran guys working to hold the line there, the JetBlue guys working to organize, and all the other unionized carriers who are working to improve things or at least stave off some unbelievably incompetent managements.

I hope those who come after me at my airline ALWAYS have it better than I did.

 

[vixin]

Everybody always bashes VA FO pay but at least we get a type out of the gate. If VA were to go under, it might help me overseas where my once beloved ALPA told me to go right before they headed off to their tee times at Moanalua Country Club. They were less than zero help.

Wow a type rating instead of 10's of thousands of dollars. Its not just the FO pay, but the CA as well. With the extra money you could buy your own type. Heck buy a couple if you want. Like another poster said they dont pay those rates to save the company. It is a very small percentage of running an airline. They pay them because they can and pilots will fly for that.

Very well said MR PD. Very well said!

 

[ualdriver]

Not that ALPA deserves any awards, but if you think ALPA pilots have gotten raped over the last 7 years with them I would hate to see what management would have been capable of without.

EXCELLENT point.

 

[ualdriver]

As I said in another post, it does not bother me so much that the VA guys and gals are paid poorly, but that the prevailing attitude is that they don't care to acknowledge the problem or work to fix the glaring issues. The "I got mine" attitude seems to prevail there. Hey different strokes for different airlines. I'll give you a ride and be very nice and polite, but that doesn't mean I respect you.

I do respect the F9 guys, the AirTran guys working to hold the line there, the JetBlue guys working to organize, and all the other unionized carriers who are working to improve things or at least stave off some unbelievably incompetent managements.

I hope those who come after me at my airline ALWAYS have it better than I did.

Wow! Two well written, to the point, great posts in the same thread! Pinch me! Is this Flightinfo.com?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

If you guys think it is a good time to negotiate pay I'd like some of what you're smoking. I was hoping to see a reset of the rates at the one year point, but since everybody else is shedding pilots right now the power to swing a better deal is pretty low.

Wish you guys would stop flooding the labor market.

As for ALPA, I have a 20 year pin at home. I've seen a lot of good for individual pilot protection (medical & legal) and a lot of good getting great contracts at some carriers. OTOH, ALPA national politics is a mess with no clear way to blend competing factions. I want no part of that side of it, and there are a lot of guys here with 20 year pins and battle stars that feel the same as me.

 

[FlyinPiker]

If you guys think it is a good time to negotiate pay I'd like some of what you're smoking.

If you think you'll be negotiating pay at all (good times or bad) I'd like some of what your smoking. They already went out of their way with the very orig idea of making you go back to first year pay after you upgrade.

If anything they might toss you a few dollars here and there once you threatin unionize...but it won't be because they thought it was about time they gave you a little something extra.

Thats what blows...do you really think skywest pilots would have the wages they do if they hadn't ridden the coat tails of union carriers.

Not that they are anything to brag about but how do you think these wages (including yours) ever came about anyway....management just giving away money?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Thanks for your insight on pay negotiations FlyinPiker.

For what it's worth I've been on both sides of the table during my years.

Again, I have nothing against collective bargaining, I just don't see the timing as being very good right now. I also don't see any viable bargaining agents out there right now.

We really do have a good working relationship here right now, and I hope it continues. Best wishes for your situation...