Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Virgin America 1Q loss $76 million

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
I'll start. :)
I'm sure plenty of those RJ capts delta just sold out would love to work at Virgin with their wages-
 
Do you mean they took away their RJ jobs by reducing the total number? You are correct.
 
I'm convinced that the VA investors have unlimited deep pockets and have no limits on the losses they are willing to sustain. VA will continue until it shows a pattern of profitability and can be re-capitalized with public equity, regardless of how many years this takes. These folks are in for the duration apparently.
 
Maybe so but I'm curious as to how a public offering of a company that has been consistently unprofitable goes.

Best of luck to all at VA. Some great people there.
 
I just heard on Bloomberg that Branson just wrote another check for around 76 million for VA. Coincidence? Find out at 11.
 
fam62c said:
I'm convinced that the VA investors have unlimited deep pockets and have no limits on the losses they are willing to sustain. VA will continue until it shows a pattern of profitability and can be re-capitalized with public equity, regardless of how many years this takes. These folks are in for the duration apparently.
Click to expand...

Hubris is a powerful motivator! Branson will not let a Virgin company fail until it's well out of his control.
 
fam62c said:
I'm convinced that the VA investors have unlimited deep pockets and have no limits on the losses they are willing to sustain. VA will continue until it shows a pattern of profitability and can be re-capitalized with public equity, regardless of how many years this takes. These folks are in for the duration apparently.
Click to expand...

NetJet pilots use to say that.
 
waveflyer said:
I'll start. :)
I'm sure plenty of those RJ capts delta just sold out would love to work at Virgin with their wages-
Click to expand...

Wave, I hope you don't go around saying anyone who goes to work for an upstart LCC at lower than industry standard wages is a sellout around your senior pilots......
 
Dan Roman said:
Wave, I hope you don't go around saying anyone who goes to work for an upstart LCC at lower than industry standard wages is a sellout around your senior pilots......
Click to expand...

I have heard many say that the "original" Southwest pilots were a bunch of guys that didn't get hired at one of the Legacy Carriers. But they are all Multi-Millionaires now, and made out even more than you could ever dream of making. I guess they all had the last laugh on all of you. I doubt that we will ever see a case like that again in our lifetime, Southwest was the last.
 
Dan Roman said:
Wave, I hope you don't go around saying anyone who goes to work for an upstart LCC at lower than industry standard wages is a sellout around your senior pilots......
Click to expand...

Nope, the ones who vote to outsource are the foundation sellouts- they're the ones who create the widespread environment of few good choices
 
canyonblue said:
I have heard many say that the "original" Southwest pilots were a bunch of guys that didn't get hired at one of the Legacy Carriers. But they are all Multi-Millionaires now, and made out even more than you could ever dream of making. I guess they all had the last laugh on all of you. I doubt that we will ever see a case like that again in our lifetime, Southwest was the last.
Click to expand...


Well your mistaken about what my retirement is, however I am certainly not going to lower myself to a "I have more than you, mines bigger than yours" debate.
However, we all know about the early SWA guys who accepted lower wages for a lot of stock and good for them. I've always that that is a good plan, (however they had less cash available during their working years to invest, so it was a compromise). Although SWA stock hasn't exactly been a stellar investment for quite awhile.
The question is though, the early SWA guys got theirs, what did SWAPA get for those that followed?
 
Um, when stock plan wasn't as good, we got a leading contract-@ profit sharing still good
 
redflyer65 said:
I just heard on Bloomberg that Branson just wrote another check for around 76 million for VA. Coincidence? Find out at 11.
Click to expand...

They have jobs as long as Branson wants to keep covering the losses. Remember Hooter's Air? At least that CEO knew when to say when. He said something like, "I have a lot of money to spend on this, but I'm not stupid".
" Branson either
a) has a lot more money, or
b) is stupid.
I am amazed if this Virgin America thing keeps going much longer. VA has lost upwards of 500M in the last five years
 
I believe it's option A.

He has a ton of money. His goal is very plain to see...

Keep funding VA until cabotage goes away and then he can freely connect his entire network.

I'm not sure how many years he's planned to put into VA. The employees better hope it's for a long, long time.

I agree with the IPO talk. It would be ugly to try to spin years of losses to new investors. I see it getting pushed back. They will blame the economy or some other event as the cause.
 
"Keep funding VA until cabotage goes away and then he can freely connect his entire network".
redflyer65: I agree on that one.

He's putting his money behind Obama this year so he can buy AA from Doug Parker/ USAirways once he owns it. You need a friend in high places to change that foreign ownership rule!
 
Grandpa +65 said:
They have jobs as long as Branson wants to keep covering the losses. Remember Hooter's Air? At least that CEO knew when to say when. He said something like, "I have a lot of money to spend on this, but I'm not stupid".
" Branson either
a) has a lot more money, or
b) is stupid.
I am amazed if this Virgin America thing keeps going much longer. VA has lost upwards of 500M in the last five years
Click to expand...

Branson, because of foreign ownership laws, cannot just pump money into this company.
 
The name on the side of the planes say VIRGIN. That is tied to Branson. There are a hundreds of thousands of ways he can help. (and you better believe he knows how important that brand is to his name) Is it legal? Probably not. I'm not naive enough to think he isn't doing something behind the scenes. He's definitely smart enough to not get caught. That's my take, yours might be different. I would think that even most VA employees think the same.
 
Supposedly, the "Bearded One" has personally guaranteed that the investors will be made whole, whatever the cost. Rumor, truth, who knows?
 
49M operating loss, 76M net loss on 267M gross revenue. 111M in unrestricted cash left. Someone had better be writing Mr. Cush a big, fat check soon. Another quarter or two like that and guys might not have time to bail before any significant hiring starts at other airlines.

And even more annoyingly, Mr. Cush didn't put a Consolidated Statement of Earnings table in his latest press release so that one can make comparisons to previous quarters. Lame.
 
labbats said:
Maybe so but I'm curious as to how a public offering of a company that has been consistently unprofitable goes.

Best of luck to all at VA. Some great people there.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't go at all, they will need to establish a track record of profitability prior to having a shot at a successful IPO. That's what I'm saying, I think that the investors are willing to keep shoveling in the cash until that happens even if it's years from now, seems crazy but they show no signs of giving up.
 
Branson isn't the only one who has dumped money into this pig. Hedge funds dumped $150M into VA in Dec 2011. The hedge funds will want to IPO VA in order to recover some of their investment.

VA's cash burn is now out of control. In spite of borrowing $150M in Dec, they ended 4Q2011 with $160M in unrestricted cash. They ended 1Q2012 with $111M in unrestricted cash. One more quarter like that and they'll need another truckload of money to burn.

VA may be adding capacity but they're having to slash fares in order to fill their planes. In spite of higher fuel prices, the average fare for VA went from $182.46 in 1Q2011 to $168.11 in 1Q2012.
Plus UAL is adding capacity out of SFO - I'd be surprised if a lot of UAL's capacity increases aren't aimed directly at VA routes.

Perhaps VA will put some lipstick on one or two quarterly reports to show a 'profit' and then IPO it out to the public.
 
Andy said:
Branson isn't the only one who has dumped money into this pig. Hedge funds dumped $150M into VA in Dec 2011. The hedge funds will want to IPO VA in order to recover some of their investment.

VA's cash burn is now out of control. In spite of borrowing $150M in Dec, they ended 4Q2011 with $160M in unrestricted cash. They ended 1Q2012 with $111M in unrestricted cash. One more quarter like that and they'll need another truckload of money to burn.

VA may be adding capacity but they're having to slash fares in order to fill their planes. In spite of higher fuel prices, the average fare for VA went from $182.46 in 1Q2011 to $168.11 in 1Q2012.
Plus UAL is adding capacity out of SFO - I'd be surprised if a lot of UAL's capacity increases aren't aimed directly at VA routes.

Perhaps VA will put some lipstick on one or two quarterly reports to show a 'profit' and then IPO it out to the public.
Click to expand...

Agreed-CASM increased 5.3% (and should only go higher) and their operating margin went from -14% to -18%. The high capacity still in the market will make this very difficult to turn around.
 
Last edited:
It absolutely amazes me that Southwest Pilots get on a Virgin America thread to bash them and turns the tables on Delta saying that we hurt the industry....

Once again.....no retirement, no holding pay, FARs for workrules, no meals, Pay for training.....and the list goes on and on.....but they sure do let all their friends know how much they make......pathetic these aholes get on here pointing the finger at a Virgin Pilot!

Enjoy the right seat wave.....it's going to be a long wait for the left!!!
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

SS at RC.PNG
Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom