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bart

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April 23, 2004, 8:33 a.m.
Myth or Reality?
Will Iraq work? That’s up to us.

By Victor Davis Hanson

Myth #1: America turned off its allies.

According to John Kerry, due to inept American diplomacy and unilateral arrogance, the United States failed to get the Europeans and the U.N. on board for the war in Iraq. Thus, unlike in Afghanistan, we find ourselves alone.

In fact, there are only about 4,500-5,500 NATO troops in Afghanistan right now. The United States and its Anglo allies routed the Taliban by themselves. NATO contingents in Afghanistan are not commensurate with either the size or the wealth of Europe.

There are far more Coalition troops in Iraq presently than in Afghanistan. As in the Balkans, NATO and EU troops will arrive only when the United States has achieved victory and provided security. The same goes for the U.N., which did nothing in Serbia and Rwanda, but watched thousands being butchered under its nose. It fled from Iraq after its first losses.

Yes, the U.N. will return to Iraq — but only when the United States defeats the insurrectionists. It will stay away if we don't. American victory or defeat, as has been true from Korea to the Balkans, will alone determine the degree of (usually post-bellum) participation of others.

Myth #2: Democracy cannot be implemented by force.

This is a very popular canard now. The myth is often floated by Middle Eastern intellectuals and American leftists — precisely those who for a half-century **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed the United States for its support of anti-Communist authoritarians.

Now that their dreams of strong U.S. advocacy for consensual government have been realized, they are panicking at that sudden nightmare — terrified that their fides, their careers, indeed their entire boutique personas might be endangered by finding themselves on the same side of history as the United States. Worse, history really does suggest that democracy often follows only from force or its threat.

One does not have to go back to ancient Athens — in 507 or 403 B.C. — to grasp the depressing fact that most authoritarians do not surrender power voluntarily. There would be no democracy today in Japan, South Korea, Italy, or Germany without the Americans' defeat of fascists and Communists. Democracies in France and most of Western Europe were born from Anglo-American liberation; European resistance to German occupation was an utter failure. Panama, Granada, Serbia, and Afghanistan would have had no chance of a future without the intervention of American troops.

All of Eastern Europe is free today only because of American deterrence and decades of military opposition to Communism. Very rarely in the modern age do democratic reforms emerge spontaneously and indigenously (ask the North Koreans, Cubans, or North Vietnamese). Tragically, positive change almost always appears after a war in which authoritarians lose or are discredited (Argentina or Greece), bow to economic or cultural coercion (South Africa), or are forced to hold elections (Nicaragua).

Myth #3: Lies got us into this war.

Did the administration really mislead us about the reasons to go to war, and does it really now find itself with an immoral conflict on its hands? Mr. Bush's lectures about WMD, while perhaps privileging such fears over more pressing practical and humanitarian reasons to remove Saddam Hussein, took their cue from prior warnings from Bill Clinton, senators of both parties including John Kerry, and both the EU and U.N.

If anyone goes back to read justifications for Desert Fox (December 1998) or those issued right after September 11 by an array of American politicians, then it is clear that Mr. Bush simply repeated the usual Western litany of about a decade or so — most of it best formulated by the Democratic party under Bill Clinton. Indeed, we opted to launch that campaign in large part because of Iraq's work on WMDs.

No, the real rub is whether Iraq will work: If it does, the WMD bogeyman disappears; if not, it becomes the surrogate issue to justify withdrawing.

Myth #4: Profit-making led to this war.

Then there is the strange idea that American administration officials profited from the war. Companies like Bechtel and Halliburton are supposedly "cashing in," either on oil contracts or rebuilding projects — as if any company is lining up to lure thousands of workers to the Iraqi oasis to lounge and cheat in such a paradise.

This idea is absurd for a variety of other reasons, too. Iraqi oil is for the first time under Iraqi, rather than a dictator's, control. And the Iraqi people most certainly will not sign over their future oil reserves to greedy companies in the manner that Saddam gave French consortia almost criminally profitable contracts. Indeed, no Iraqi politician is going to demand to pump more oil to lower gas prices in the country that freed him. Some imperialism.

All U.S. construction is subject to open audit and assessment. A zealous media has not yet found any signs of endemic or secret corruption. There really is a giant scandal surrounding Iraq, but it involves (1) the United Nations Oil-for-Food program, in which U.N. officials and Saddam Hussein, hand-in-glove with European and Russian oil companies, robbed revenues from the Iraqi people; and (2) French petroleum interests that strong-armed a tottering dictator to sign over his country's national treasure to Parisian profiteers under conditions that no consensual government would ever agree to. The only legitimate accusation of Iraqi profiteering does not involve Dick Cheney or Halliburton, but rather Kofi Annan's negligence and his son Kojo's probable malfeasance.

Myth #5: Israel has caused the United States untold headaches in the Arab world by its intransigent policies.

The refutation of this myth could take volumes, given the depth of daily misinformation. Perhaps, though, we can sum up the absurdity by looking at the nature of West Bank demonstrations over the past few months.

The issues baffle Americans: Some Arab citizens of Israel, residing in almost entirely Arab border towns and calling themselves Palestinians, were furious about Mr. Sharon's offer to cede them sovereign Israeli soil and thus allow them to join the new Palestinian nation. Others were hysterical that two killers — who promised not merely the "liberation" of the West Bank, but also the utter destruction of Israel — were in fact killed in a war by Israelis. Both of the deceased had **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed the United States and expressed support for Islamicists now killing our soldiers in Iraq — even as their supporters whined that we did not lament their recent departures to a much-praised paradise.

Elsewhere fiery demonstrators were shaking keys to houses that they have not been residing in for 60 years — furious about the forfeiture of the "right of return" and their inability to migrate to live out their lives in the hated "Zionist entry." Notably absent were the relatives of the hundreds of thousands of Jews of Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, and other Arab capitals who years ago were all ethnically cleansed and sent packing from centuries-old homes, but apparently got on with what was left of their lives.

The Palestinians will, in fact, get their de facto state, though one that may be now cut off entirely from Israeli commerce and cultural intercourse. This is an apparently terrifying thought: Palestinian men can no longer blow up Jews on Monday, seek dialysis from them on Tuesday, get an Israeli paycheck on Wednesday, demonstrate to CNN cameras about the injustice of it all on Thursday — and then go back to tunneling under Gaza and three-hour, all-male, conspiracy-mongering sessions in coffee-houses on Friday. Beware of getting what you bomb for.

Perhaps the absurdity of the politics of the Middle East is best summed up by the recent visit of King Abdullah of Jordan, a sober and judicious autocrat, or so we are told. As the monarch of an authoritarian state, recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars in annual American aid, son of a king who backed Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War, and a leader terrified that the Israeli fence might encourage Palestinian immigration into his own Arab kingdom, one might have thought that he could spare us the moral lectures at San Francisco's Commonwealth Club — especially when his elite Jordanian U.N. peacekeepers were just about to murder American citizens in Kosovo while terrorists in his country tried to mass murder Americans with gas.

Instead we got the broken-record Middle East sermon on why Arabs don't like Americans — as if we had forgotten 9/11 and its quarter-century-long precursors. Does this sensible autocrat — perhaps the most reasonable man in the region — ever ask himself about questions of symmetry and reciprocity?

Is there anything like a Commonwealth Club in Amman? And if not, why not? And could a Mr. Blair or Mr. Bush in safety and freedom visit Amman to hold a public press conference, much less to lecture his Jordanian hosts on why Americans in general — given state-sponsored terrorism, Islamic extremism, and failed Middle Eastern regimes — have developed such unfavorable attitudes towards so many Arab societies?

What then is the truth of this so-often-caricatured war?

On the bright side, there has not been another 9/11 mass-murder. And this is due entirely to our increased vigilance, the latitude given our security people by the hated Patriot Act, and the idea that the war (not a DA's inquiry) should be fought abroad not at home.

The Taliban was routed and Afghanistan has the brightest hopes in thirty years. Pakistan, so unlike 1998, is not engaged in breakneck nuclear proliferation abroad. Libya claims a new departure from its recent past. Syria fears a nascent dissident movement. Saddam is gone. Iran is hysterical about new scrutiny. American troops are out of Saudi Arabia.
 
Continued

True, we are facing various groups jockeying for power in a new Iraq; and the country is still unsettled. Yet millions of Kurds are satisfied and pro-American. Millions more Shiites want political power — and think that they can get it constitutionally through us rather than out of the barrel of a gun following an unhinged thug. After all, any fool who names his troops "Mahdists" is sorely misinformed about the fate of the final resting place of the Great Mahdi, the couplets of Hilaire Beloc, and what happened to thousands of Mahdist zealots at Omdurman.

So, we can either press ahead in the face of occasionally bad news from Iraq (though it will never be of the magnitude that once came from Sugar Loaf Hill or the icy plains near the Yalu that did not faze a prior generation's resolve) — or we can withdraw. Then watch the entire three-year process of real improvement start to accelerate in reverse. If after 1975 we thought that over a million dead in Cambodia, another million on rickety boats fleeing Vietnam, another half-million sent to camps or executed, hundreds of thousands of refugees arriving in America, a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, an Iranian take-over of the U.S. embassy, oil-embargos, Communist entry into Central America, a quarter-century of continual terrorist attacks, and national invective were bad, just watch the new world emerge when Saddam's Mafioso or Mr. Sadr's Mahdists force our departure.

This war was always a gamble, but not for the reasons many Americans think. We easily had, as proved, the military power to defeat Saddam; we embraced the idealism and humanity to eschew realpolitik and offer something different in the place of mass murder. And we are winning on all fronts at a cost that by any historical measure has confirmed both our skill and resolve.

But the lingering question — one that has never been answered — was always our attention and will. The administration assumed that in occasional times of the inevitable bad news, we were now more like the generation that endured the surprise of Okinawa and Pusan rather than Tet and Mogadishu. All were bloody fights; all were similarly controversial and unexpected; all were alike proof of the fighting excellence of the American soldiers — but not all were seen as such by Americans. The former were detours on the road to victory and eventual democracy; the latter led to self-recrimination, defeat, and chaos in our wake.

The choice between myth and reality is ours once more.
 
Excellent read!

Great post bart. It will be interesting to see the liberal reply to this.


W
 
I predict that there will be very little rebuttal.

The piece discusses facts, and exposes aspects of the dynamic that are never exposed on CNN or NPR.

There is no neatly packaged slogan or chant that can be given in response, nor one sided manipulation of a single fact, dressed up with inuendo and implication. There is too much evidence that freedom requires sacrifice, death, and victory in order to exist anywhere.

No, there is far too much truth here for even the most simple complaint.
 
Re: Excellent read!

Dubya said:
. It will be interesting to see the liberal reply to this.


W

Let me answer for them.

"So what, Shrub is still an idiot"

:D
enigma
 
Or how about:

"The Neo-Con chickenhawk, anti-woman, media-controlling, anti choice, racist, facist, bigot, homophobe, Oxycontin-gulping, air-polluting, intollerant, UN-hating, Karl Rove-loving, water-poisoning, AWOL, Howard-Stern-censoring, John Ashcroft-imitating, hypocrite, Scalia-disciple, war-criminal, dittohead, cowboy, election stealing, war-profiteering, ultra-right-wing religious zealots in charge of the "president" need to be sent back to Texas."

"Like father like son, one term and you're done!!!"

How'd I do?

One more thing while I'm here....where are those pesky WMD's?

Let's ask these folks.......

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
 
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I'd like to respond

But I'm not bored enough yet. I still have a lot of aviation threads to sift through.

Maybe when I finish catching up on Pprune and after I finish my Jepp revisions and I've cleaned my toilet and clipped my toe nails then I'll find the time.
 
Maybe when I finish catching up on Pprune and after I finish my Jepp revisions and I've cleaned my toilet and clipped my toe nails then I'll find the time.

Translated:

I have nothing intelligent to rebut the article with. It has completely addressed the facts. Since infantile ranting would make me look stupid, I will act bored.
 
For your pleasure: An infantile rant.

<<Myth #1: America turned off its allies.>>
Not exactly. Who are America's allies? Britain? Australia? Italy? Spain? Japan? Israel? Saudi Arabia? I think the so-called myth has been poorly paraphrased by Mr. Hanson. The truth is, the Bush Administration explicitly stated, "You're with us or you're against us." Some countries chipped in, others did not. The one's that didn't were never considered our allies. Even so, I think the little diatribe about the priorities of the UN and NATO are simply diversion from the fact that this administration holds the UN in such disdain that their intent and concern is practically irrelevent. So why even waste any ink on the UN's agenda? Who cares, right?

<<Myth #2: Democracy cannot be implemented by force.>>Um, that's a Truth. It wouldn't be democracy otherwise. In post WWII Europe and even China today, there was a genuine movement for democracy. The road was paved. Granted, in Italy for example, the Americans set democracy in motion with a true liberation from fascism but let's be honest: The Italian Partisan movement was an honest to God movement towards democracy. The Iraqi people of today are not ready for democracy because THEY have not chosen it. It cannot (and won't) be imposed on them.

<<Myth #3: Lies got us into this war.>>Politicians lie. All of them. That's what they do. They're liars. This so-called myth isn't even worth responding to. Lie down with dogs, and you get fleas. Here's the deal: It doesn't even matter if Bush lied through his teeth because Congress gave him Carte Blanche to do whatever he pleased for as long as he pleased. So lie. Don't lie. I don't care. Do whatever you want.

<<Myth #4: Profit-making led to this war.>>No. Single-minded fixation of the Doctrine of Pre-emptive War led to this war. Profit-making will follow this war.

<<Myth #5: Israel has caused the United States untold headaches in the Arab world by its intransigent policies.>>I won't be drawn into another Israeli/Palestinian debate.

Infantile rant over. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. I'm gonna take a shower now.
 
Well, I sure hope that profit making will follow this war.

Capitalism is the fastest way to a developing and free society. That's why China will become a powerful democracy. The students of the 1980's are the adults in China today. More and more Chinese are becoming educated. In another twenty years, China will be on board.

Iraq won't be "forced" into democracy, but the people will gravitate to it. It will take time, for sure, but it will come, thanks to our actions.
 
Democracy cannot be implemented by force.>>Um, that's a Truth.

I would argue that it is a myth. We certainly created one in Nicaragua, and we used force to do it. Same with Grenada.

We used force to do it in Japan. We used force to do it in Germany. We used force to create it here in the US, just ask the Tories that fled to Canada.
 
Two thoughts:

One. Timebuilder, I was afraid my reference to the Chinese student protests in 1989 was going to be missed. Thanks for catching it.

Two. Bart, I'll just repeat myself once. If the people *want* democracy then a little military force to overthrow the current power structure may just be what's needed to get things in motion. But I still maintain it's futile to impose a system of government on a people who don't genuinely desire that system.

As you know, the "Iraqi" people are composed of various tribes that have made war for generations.

Even with my example of Italian democracy one could argue that given her history as a region of city-states often at odds with each other that has produced one of the most corrupt modern governments in Europe. Since the end of WWII Italy has known more than 50 administrations.

Democratic in name, Yes.
Democratic in spirit, argueable.

And that's where it counts. In spirit. Otherwise it's just lip service and destined to become a continuum of radical uprising then intervention then radical uprising then intervention then...

...and so a monster has been created.
 
Perhaps the lasting answer will come in the same manner as I suggested in the Alvin Toffler thread: good people, taking the lead in an environment of new opportunity, and changing hearts and minds, inclining them toward morality and freedom.

It has worked before. IMHO, it is always worth striving for.
 
Remember: It takes one to know one.

TB--You, sir, are a flaming liberal in stark denial.

If you really believe Iraq can be *any* of that...

That place will be nothing but a civil rights and human rights wasteland.

It will be a place where noble thoughts go to die.

I shudder at my own cynicism but I don't believe for one minute we have the Iraqi people's best interest in mind.
 
Certainly, good people can disagree. I think that's where we are here.

The Iraqi people are the best hope right now for the beginning of freedom for the Arab peoples. It had to start somewhere. Just as new leaders are rising in the former soviet union, and freedom is stirring in China, freedom has a very real possibility of taking hold in Iraq. It won't look western, it will look decidedly Arab. That won't change for several more decades.

But, starting here, it WILL change.

And if you could only have seen me when I WAS a liberal!!!

:D
 
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