VFR-On-Top

[BoDEAN]

Thinking about filing this so I can get some airwork done with private students. Never done it before. Wondering if many of you use this technique with private students to do airwork above the clouds. What is the proper procedure on obtaining this? File to the airport you are departing from, once airport, ask for a block altitude, do your airwork, then call approach when ready to head back in?

 

[minitour]

I'd say file for "climb to VFR on top"...worked for me (note - to get airwork in, not as a CFI)...if not, just file a local with cruise altitude high enough to be "on top" (assuming you have a tops report)...then request VFR on top once you get to VFR conditions...

Not sure how others feel about it, but I think it's a wonderful idea. Expose the student to real IFR (instread of 3 hours of hood time) and everything that goes with it (disorientation, etc)...but at the same time it's a safe, controlled environment (assuming you're proficient at flying instruments from the right seat)...

Good luck!

-mini

 

[350DRIVER]

See if you are able to obtain a block of altitude and X miles on either side of a nav facility so you have some area to work. Depending on your local airport this is something that can usually be worked out with ground control if they are not overly busy.

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

See if you are able to obtain a block of altitude and X miles on either side of a nav facility so you have some area to work. Depending on your local airport this is something that can usually be worked out with ground control if they are not overly busy.

3 5 0

Or the nice guy on local when the B*tch on ground is too busy stuffing her face to give you an understandable taxi clearance...

"uh...Cessna 123 was that taxi to taco bell?"

*silence*

-mini

 

[Flyin Tony]

I would just ask the tower for a VFR-Conditions-ON Top. Once on top cancel and do the airwork. Then when your ready to head back in ask for a IFR back to the airport.

Tony

 

[350DRIVER]

Or the nice guy on local when the B*tch on ground is too busy stuffing her face to give you an understandable taxi clearance...

"uh...Cessna 123 was that taxi to taco bell?"

*silence*

-mini

I envy you on the fun and exciting times that await you at XXX.

3 5 0

(no sarcasm intended)

 

[minitour]

I envy you on the fun and exciting times that await you at XXX.

3 5 0

(no sarcasm intended)

Yeah...I tingle with anticipatory glee...

-mini

 

[Superpilot92]

I would just ask the tower for a VFR-Conditions-ON Top. Once on top cancel and do the airwork. Then when your ready to head back in ask for a IFR back to the airport.

Tony

thats Exactly what I do. Get a IFR for VFR on top get on top and cancel. Stay on with atc for advisories. Get your airwork in then get a ifr clearance back home.

 

[Vik]

Getting the block of altitude is a great idea.

My CFII got blocks of altitude here in SoCal during the summer in the mornings and I did everything in the soup .. logged almost 7hrs of actual during my IFR training alone. Doing holds in the soup especially when you're new to holds .. wow .. It was quite an experience.

Now I have to specifically request altitudes with clouds these days. Seems like the clouds avoid my plane.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Now I have to specifically request altitudes with clouds these days. Seems like the clouds avoid my plane.

Same here!! When I was doing my IR I got around 5 hours actual. And now I o up and most of the time they put me right above or right below the clouds. Or its just to bad to go up.

 

[Vik]

The pains of living in SoCal w/ 300days of sunshine (not lately though) is a pain. I can't wait till summer comes back and we get the marine layer again.

Same here!! When I was doing my IR I got around 5 hours actual. And now I o up and most of the time they put me right above or right below the clouds. Or its just to bad to go up.

 

[Flyin Tony]

The pains of living in SoCal w/ 300days of sunshine (not lately though) is a pain. I can't wait till summer comes back and we get the marine layer again.

But the bad thing about that is.... It will burn off before I wake up

If its still around at 12:00 to 1:00 I should make it down there

 

[Vector4fun]

Jeff,

The only "problem" with this procedure is airspace boundry and traffic issues. Don't know what approach control you're dealing with. Are they located at the same field you fly out of? If not, do you have an RCO on the ground? I ask, because it's sometimes easiest to talk to the supe or a controller about it before doing it the first time. If you're just going to get a local IFR clearance to get on top, they will want you to stay in the lateral limits of their airspace. Otherwise, you may need to file so you're in the NAS. We do it here occasionally. We don't have a problem so long as we can keep a local IFR in our airspace, and clear of our DPs and STARs until they cancel. Neighboring facilities understandably don't like taking pointouts on IFR traffic that has no defined route or altitude.

I'm sure there's an area that will allow you to do all you want, you may just need to chat with them for 5 minutes and find out where it is...