VFR lost comm entering class B

[ThomasR]

Class B

I'm sorry man.....but whenever I see your posts....I can't take them seriously....I mean, when I see something that makes sense, and then see that Avatar....I'm mesmerized....and nothing seems to make sense anymore....

I agree; Why turn a Yes or No answer into a Doctoral thesis? [Just kidding, I all ready know what you are thinking; no need to confirm.]

 

[146guy]

If you were arriving VFR to a Class B airport (already inside the airspace) and then went nordo the regs do provide you the legality to continue to land, but I wouldn't enter the Bravo w/out a clearance.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I can understand the B, because you need a clearance, but C and D you don't. Since talking to the ATC guys at the Delta I fly out of, they pretty much said if you're squawking 7600, they'll give you the green and vector everyone around you...the theory is they can talk to them, but not you...I'd say land as soon as possibly, if that means a C or D airport, so be it...but unless you're IN the Bravo when you lose radios, land under it, around it, on the other side of it, but not in it.

You need to aquire two way radio communication to enter B, C, and D. Bravo's you need a "Cleared into the Bravo" if your VFR but if you loose com outside a B,C,or D why would you enter? Keep in mind alot of D's don't have radar and if you enter the airspace without at least two way radio communications with the controller then you shouldn't be there. Yeah, my tower has radar, and I can see people who shouldn't be there when they are but don't go on the notion that well, I lost my comms, im enroute to ABC airport, its controlled, they will vector planes out of the way. Do you realize how big of a pain in the ass that is? All your doing is taking a minor situation (Radio Failure) and making it bigger but entering a controlled airport blindly. Over flying looking for a light gun, which takes the local controller away from the picture to figure out what the hell is going on and then to resequence everyone for you. If your ever 6 miles out, loose radio and decide to come into my airport because that is where you enroute to, I will resequence everyone, give you a green gun, and then file a report with the FSDO. If your IFR enroute in IFR conds, thats a different story. But VFR with all the uncontrolled airports out there there is no excuse.

 

[minitour]

....Yeah, my tower has radar, and I can see people who shouldn't be there when they are but don't go on the notion that well, I lost my comms, im enroute to ABC airport, its controlled, they will vector planes out of the way. Do you realize how big of a pain in the ass that is? All your doing is taking a minor situation (Radio Failure) and making it bigger but entering a controlled airport blindly.....If your ever 6 miles out, loose radio and decide to come into my airport because that is where you enroute to, I will resequence everyone, give you a green gun, and then file a report with the FSDO. If your IFR enroute in IFR conds, thats a different story. But VFR with all the uncontrolled airports out there there is no excuse.

Far 91.3(b) [Responsibility and Authority of the Pilot In Command]
In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot incommand may deviate from any rule of this part ot the extent required to meet that emergency. (also 91.129(d)(2))

After reviewing the B and C airspace "rules", I wouldn't want to go there unless I was already in the airspace, and if I was in the airspace, I'd probably try to get out, under, or around it before I landed. If I needed to though, I'd land under 91.3(b) (i.e. running low on fuel, icing, etc)

Now I do agree with you, flying into a B, C, or D with no comms isn't something I'd TRY to do, but if you've got an emergency...and personally, I feel that losing radios is an emergency...some people say its not, but if I can't talk to you, I don't assume that you can see me (another plane).

Probably going to be some paperwork involved, but I'd rather have 8-10 hours of paperwork than end up in a pile of aluminum somewhere in BFE because I couldn't land in B, C, or D airspace. (again, B or C wouldn't be my FIRST choice if I could avoid it, but that option is there) and I do understand that its a pain in the ass to vector traffic around a 152 doing 60 knots on a 5 mile final, and if I decide to go into ATC its probably something that I'll really hate to have to do. For now, I'm on the end of the stick flying a gas tank with wings at X,000 feet with no radio. My concern isn't the Lear coming out of 10,000 feet that wants to land on x runway and wants the clearance two minutes ago. My concern is getting on the ground and trying to figure out later what went wrong and hopefully fixing it. So, I guess I'll have to appologise in advance, but I'll squawk 7600 and go where I can.

God willing, these situations are far and few between for all of us.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Your right, an inflight emergency says the pilot can deviate from any FAR's as need be, however a lost comm in VFR conditions is not by any means an emergency. A million planes out there fly with no radio all day long in and out of the uncontrolled fields.

Lets examine one crucial element here. If an airport has a tower, it must be semi busy traffic to warrant the existince of a tower, if it doesn't, then the traffic volume is low enough to operate an aircraft without a radio.

If you lost comms and really felt the need to land at a B,C, or D, so be it, the controllers will do what we are supposed to do, and in all reality, if I have a consistent stream of traffic, im flashing a red light at you and I'll get back to you when I can. Don't expect to get a green light right away, and some places, dont expect to get it period. If you come up on a 7700 xpdr code, dont even wait for the gun, just land....according the FARS a pilot can deviate from any reg in emergency. The tower is gonna come meet you at the plane, I've done it before, and they are gonna wanna know why you had an emergency, cause the fire trucks will be out on the runway with you and there is gonna be a pile of paper work. Then FSDO is gonna wonder why you declared an emergency for lost comms in VFR and it would be intresting from that point on.

 

[ThomasR]

Lost Comm

This is one of those cases where a simply stated situation gains aggravation by others interjecting extended circumstances to the scenario that were not originally stated. The story begins to change until it becomes a cascade of "I'm right and your wrong" innuendo. It is a worthless cause. Remanicent of one attempting to compete for post entry leadership.
Over and Out.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

This is one of those cases where a simply stated situation gains aggravation by others interjecting extended circumstances to the scenario that were not originally stated. The story begins to change until it becomes a cascade of "I'm right and your wrong" innuendo. It is a worthless cause. Remanicent of one attempting to compete for post entry leadership.
Over and Out.

AND HOW DO YOU REALLY FEEL?

 

[ThomasR]

Lost Com

AND HOW DO YOU REALLY FEEL?

"Keep it simple, stupid"!

Not you, of course, you are quite knowedgable being in ATC and all. But your message would have much greater impact and benefit if you'd make a series of points rather than jam the page with endless bits of information aimed at every other entry on the topic. The posts don't dissappear you can go back and make your point one at a time. Why confuse people? Just my opinion.

 

[mattpilot]

I'll have to agree with Lrjtcaptain - Lost Radio is by no means an emergency. If a radio is not required to be in the aircraft to begin with (VFR min equipment list), how can it be an emergency if yours suddenly went out?

Personally i'd never return to my Class D airport after radio failure. KRVS has some 750 operations a day. However, I can't really figure out why the local school (who accounts for 75% of the operations) tells its students to return to the airport if the radio is out.

@minitour

sorry, but that sounds kinda egocentric. If a radio failure in VMC is your only 'emergency', and what you wrote is your plan of action, then you got some issues. By flying to a controlled airport your creating a lot more hazards than you think - mostly for others. In most of the US you can find an uncontrolled airport every 10 min. Land at one of those, call the tower (you can obtain any number by calling 1800WXBRIEF) and work out a plan of action with them.