VFR Clearance

[501261]

Generally, departing Class B or C VFR you need to call clearance, why isn’t this a “hard” rule? Think about the 2AM VFR departure. So, “generally” ATC puts the “call clearance” on the ATIS. As English pointed out SNA, VNY, BUR, LAS all have this on their ATIS. As Avbug pointed out busy airports beneath Class B or C sometimes don’t do this for clearance, in the SDL example the reason is because SDL is beneath the Class B and you can exit the SDL Class D without entering the Class B.

 

[UnstableAviator]

Good ol

I wish I could find in the AIM or other publication something dealing with this. Simply because telling your students that some Class C airports use clearance delivery for VFR departures and some don't "just because" isn't much to my liking.

As for CMH, they have always used clearance delivery for VFR departures. There is never anything on the ATIS about it though, so I doubt you heard it wrong. I go VFR in and out of there several times a month with students.

 

[Vector4fun]

Some of the confusion here is because controllers referred to it as a "VFR clearance" (common slang). A clearance is not technically required to operate VFR in Class C airspace, but radar service is normally required and provided. Therefore, whenever operating out of the primary airport in Class B or C airspace, if the airport has a CD frequency, it's a good idea to start there.

Some airports put a message on the ATIS for VFR deps to contact CD prior to taxi, some don't. At one airport I previously worked at, we had so many complaints from the local pilots about the length of the ATIS broadcasts, (NOTAMS etc.), that they actually requested we leave the VFR Dep message off. The Local's reasoning was that "everybody ought to know this by now".

Typically, the controller working CD is prepairing a strip and entering info into the ARTS system, which takes about 20-30 seconds. Not much, but more "heads down" time than a busy ground controller can spare at times. Plus, I don't even HAVE a keyboard at the GC position here. So, we'll send you to CD, VFR or IFR....

 

[midlifeflyer]

Re: Good ol

I wish I could find in the AIM or other publication something dealing with this. Simply because telling your students that some Class C airports use clearance delivery for VFR departures and some don't "just because" isn't much to my liking.

I agree that it would be nice if there was some SOP. The AIM is pretty clear on VFR Class B departures, but not Class C. Something to the effect of

==============================
Unless otherwise advised in the ATIS broadcast, departing VFR aircraft should advise the clearance delivery position of their intended altitude and route of flight.
==============================

That said, in my small experience, I haven't yet come across a Class C primary in which CD was =not= used for VFR departure instructions, so I wonder whether the above, although not in any FAA publication really is an SOP.

Other than Class C primaries that include a "contact CD" instruction on ATIS for VFR departures, does anyone here know of a Class C that does =not= conform to the above.

 

[English]

Every class C I have ever flown out of VFR required a call to clearance delivery. Some class D airports are now requiring it as well (LGB).

 

[satpak77]

My rule of thumb is if CD freq is published on the plates at that particular airport, I start with that one. If its slow, CD and Ground may be worked by same person.

I always taught and required that my students carry the AFD and also a copy of the IFR plates for the area, for "info purposes", such as runway diagrams, etc.

You will see some people hauling around the AOPA airport directory, which is a good reference, but for me its easier to carry one AFD and (usually, depending on state) one book of NOAA plates.

The one day you need that runway diagram or that HIWAS freq quickly is the same day your student forgot his AFD. Plus, by being familiar with plates and reading the AFD the students "head is in the game" when he goes into high density airports and hears that Learjet cleared to XXX fix, especially if XXX fix is the IAF and a non-tower field, and your student is in the pattern practicing touch and go's. It still happens that the turbine guys, even tho we try not to, we will call "XXX Traffic, Lear 12 Bravo is leaving the Procedure turn and is WOOLE inbound"

Obviously the preffered is "Lear 12 Bravo is 7 miles South, inbound for runway XX" but in the real world sometimes that does not happen.

If student pilot Jones is familiar where WOOLE is physically at, then all the better.

Anyway, not to get sidetracked, I used to teach the students to keep it simple. If CD is published, start there. Then ground for GROUND OPS. Then tower, and departure/approach as required by the charts and local protocol.

anyway, my .02 cents, put it in the appropriately shaped file

 

[midlifeflyer]

My rule of thumb is if CD freq is published on the plates at that particular airport, I start with that one.

What "plates"? We're talking VFR procedures here. I've never called CD when VFR out of a Class D airport (unless there's a A/FD note or ATIS instruction to do so). And, again when VFR, do you call CD at a non-towered airport if there's a CD frequency for it?

 

[English]

LGB is the only class D that I have flown out of that REQUIRES a call to clearance delivery for both VFR and IFR departures.

Maybe they're getting ready to go class C, I don't know...but it's been this way since 1998...

I don't undertand why there is so much confusion about this. If departing a class C or class B airport, call clearance delivery before you taxi. Period.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Every class C I have ever flown out of VFR required a call to clearance delivery. Some class D airports are now requiring it as well (LGB).

Good point. Especially when the Class D is a Class B or C satellite. Does the ATIS tell you to contact CD?

We can add to the survey:

SOP for VFR aircraft departing Class C:
==============================
Unless otherwise advised in the ATIS broadcast, departing VFR aircraft should advise the clearance delivery position of their intended altitude and route of flight.
==============================

SOP for VFR aircraft departing Class D:
==============================
Unless otherwise advised in the ATIS broadcast, departing VFR aircraft need not advise the clearance delivery position of their intended altitude and route of flight.
==============================

Same question: Anyone know a Class C or D airport that doesn't fit?

 

[Timebuilder]

I only had one unusual experience with a VFR clearance.

I was preparing to depart from RDU, which was a class C airport in 2000 when this happened, in a Skyhawk. A friend and I had been down there for a few days.

I was in the habit of using clearance delivery from my home field, which is a class D field, and from Philadelphia when I would use that airport.

So, I call up CD and ask for a VFR clearance to an on-course heading of such-and-such to Martin State. The guy says "standby".

Then he says I don't see a VFR flight plan in the system for you. I said there isn't one, I just want a VFR clearance. He said that I had to file a VFR flight plan to get a VFR clearance.

Not wanting to make a big deal, I said I was sorry and could he put one in for me? No, I had to call FSS.

Now it seemed pretty odd to me at the time, but got even more odd as I started flying into NY and North Jersey, places like TEB where we'd just ask for and receive a VFR clearnace, fly the prescribed departure, and on home with radar service and a VFR altitude at max permissible speed.

Does anyone know of some special trial program at RDU that required a VFR plan to be on file for a clearance?