Van down in Canada

bigboy

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Some airplanes are better than others, The Caravan could handle ice to an extent. Its a great airplane to fly but sadly once in a while, someone out there will gets trapped in icing conditions that if you don't get out of it right away. you might end up dead. condolences to the pilots family.
 
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Victor Meldrew

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The van will take quite a bit of ice, it will also collect it quickly too (especially on the front of the cargo pod). Like any booted aircraft you have to let it build up before blowing the boots. On the van you don't want to let your speed get below 120kts when trying to remove the ice.

Sad accident, Condolences.
 

Dangerkitty

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Victor Meldrew said:
The van will take quite a bit of ice, it will also collect it quickly too (especially on the front of the cargo pod). Like any booted aircraft you have to let it build up before blowing the boots. On the van you don't want to let your speed get below 120kts when trying to remove the ice.

Sad accident, Condolences.

It's been awhile since I flew with boots but I was told at my Commuter airline that the Theory of ice "bridging" was non-existant and that you should blow the boots at the first sign of ice. We were told over and over again to not let the ice build up.

Are they still teaching people to do that on the Caravan?
 

AirMugsy

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Yeah,
I actually just did this online course from NASA on icing, and they we're saying that with more modern systems, blowing the boots with the first sign of ice is recommended now instead of the old method of waiting for a buildup.
 

FlierDude

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Condolences to her family and friends.
Whats your opinion of the worst handling known-ice certified piston/turbine?
Has to be the C303 Crusader. Even with both turning, the thing would quit climbing with just a trace of ice. And that's after the SB 'fix'.

.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Dangerkitty said:
It's been awhile since I flew with boots but I was told at my Commuter airline that the Theory of ice "bridging" was non-existant and that you should blow the boots at the first sign of ice. We were told over and over again to not let the ice build up.

Are they still teaching people to do that on the Caravan?

The problem with the van is that thick leading edge to the wing. Ice will build up quickly on the front portion of the wing. Takes a little longer for the ice to start to form further back from the leading edge and cover some more of the expansion ducts. If you blow to early that area of ice on the leading edge just moves out and back with boot expansion. You have to let the ice build a bit so when the boots expand there is actually some ice to crack. The speed issue comes into play then as you need a good airflow over the thick wing to blow it away.

I also found that during the icing season, keep the boots treated well to help prevent ice adheasion when you do blow them. Dull rough boots will hold onto the ice. The tailplane and struts shift the ice well no matter at what stage you operate the boots but I did find that manual boot operation was far better than the automatic system. But you have to be careful - anyone ever got a tail stall on the van in ice? It grabs your attention!!
 

EatSleepFly

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Dangerkitty said:
It's been awhile since I flew with boots but I was told at my Commuter airline that the Theory of ice "bridging" was non-existant and that you should blow the boots at the first sign of ice. We were told over and over again to not let the ice build up.

Are they still teaching people to do that on the Caravan?
Nope.

I recently went to one of those Caravan icing seminars, and they are now recommending letting it build up 1/4" to 3/4" before blowing the boots if the rate of airspeed degradation allows. If it's building fast, and you're losing airspeed rapidly, they say to blow them at "as little as 1/4". The way I understand it, they do not recommend blowing the boots with less than 1/4". I guess I would agree with that. Seems like anything less than that, and it doesn't really shed the ice, it just breaks it up and makes it rougher.

I should have mentioned it to the people putting on the seminar, but it would be nice if they'd discuss icing operations with TKS-equipped Caravans. I'm guessing they probably don't have enough data though, since there aren't too many of them around.
 
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AirMugsy

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I didnt even know there were TKS equipped Caravans out there.
 

Snakum

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Peden said weather may have played a factor in the crash.
Wow ... nothing gets past this guy, does it?

Minh
 

Fuzzy_is_Hungry

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AirMugsy said:
Yeah,
I actually just did this online course from NASA on icing, and they we're saying that with more modern systems, blowing the boots with the first sign of ice is recommended now instead of the old method of waiting for a buildup.

That may be true with new systems, but you have to make sure what you are flying. The 121 operator I work for now taught us in ground school to blow the boots at the first sign of ice, but then the seasoned captains at the company say that is incorrect. Just be sure of your equipment.
 

TheDogsBollocks

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An ex-AMF pilot I used to know died in a C-208 a while back under similar circumstances, it seems to me that the Caravan is a most marginal aircraft in icing conditions. Any caravan pilots able to give us the real deal about this?
 

boxjockey

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I have 200 hours in the Caravan, and I can tell you from personal experience, it is not a good ice airplane. Once in freezing rain and once in fast-building rime ice. Because of the thick wing and relatively slow airspeed, it seems to really want to hold on to the ice. The more ice you get, the slower it goes, and the harder it is to get rid of the ice. Scared me pretty good once. Just my personal experiences.

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