Value of BE-90 right seat time?

[onthebeach]

>>I think to log the time as PIC you'd need a high altitude sign-off as well.<<

No. The endorsement is required to ACT as PIC, not to log PIC time. The latter only requires that you hold at least a Private Pilot certificate in Multi-Engine Land Airplanes, and, if in IMC, an Instrument Rating.

 

[Buckeye]

iflyjets4food, Answering your original question, I would chalk it up to experience and tell the interviewers it helped learning CRM, and functioning in a two crew environment. I would also add the different things you liked, disliked, and learned from flying with different Capt's. I am sorry I interrupted the typical who knows best and whom is smarter then who and the regs say.... I am glad I am not one of those guys.

imp:

 

[airspeedsalive]

>>I think to log the time as PIC you'd need a high altitude sign-off as well.<<

No. The endorsement is required to ACT as PIC, not to log PIC time. The latter only requires that you hold at least a Private Pilot certificate in Multi-Engine Land Airplanes, and, if in IMC, an Instrument Rating.

Huh. That's interesting. I recently just started doing a part-time seat warmer deal in King Air. I assumed that on the dead legs I could log PIC time, but I'd need to wait until I had a high altitude endorement.

I'll check into that when I get home. Does everyone else agree with onthebeach?

Thanks

 

[falcon20driver]

Major difference between ACTING and LOGGING pilot in command time, it's like night and day.

Look it up in the regs, only reqs. to log PIC are rated in the type of ship.
Now if you're going to actually be the PIC than you will need the thin air signoff. Realistically though, I don't think anyone actually ever get the signoff, just a jet or turboprop type rating and you get sent on your way, so maybe that covers it.

 

[Bushhatesyou]

The time still counts for total time,multi,cross country, ect. (if you have taken a sic 135 check ride that is.)

 

[puddlejumper]

Huh. That's interesting. I recently just started doing a part-time seat warmer deal in King Air. I assumed that on the dead legs I could log PIC time, but I'd need to wait until I had a high altitude endorement.

I'll check into that when I get home. Does everyone else agree with onthebeach?

Thanks

I agree with onthebeach in that you do not need the high altitude endorsement to log PIC, only to ACT as PIC. I disagree, however, on his/her comment about needing to be instrument rated to log PIC in IMC. This is a condition of flight, like night/day. If you are the sole manipulator, you can log the time in an aircraft in which you are rated. Regardless of required endorsements, currencies or flight conditions. Category/class pertains to being rated in an aircraft. Instrument rated applies to an operational rating on one's certificate. (that isn't coming through very clearly, maybe someone can explain it better)

Here's an example: You're out of BFR. You go and fly with a CFI. You are the sole manipulator for the flight review. You log it all as PIC, even though you can not act as PIC until you've completed the review. Let's say the CFI gets a local IFR clearance and you go fly around in the clouds. Log it is as PIC, actual instrument. You're rated in the airplane, just not the type of operation you are conducting. Just because you are current at night, and fly at night with a CFI, or a safety pilot, one still should log it as PIC, as long as the CFI/safety pilot is current and rated for the type of operation and agrees to ACT as the PIC.

Edit(added) If you are a non-instrument rated ASEL Pvt pilot training for the instrument rating, you log the training as PIC, even if you're on an IFR flight plan. In IMC, you would continue logging PIC and actual instrument. Say you're an ASEL Pvt getting a AMEL rating. The time receiving instruction is not PIC, since you're not rated in the aircraft yet. If your MEI signs you off to solo it and you go fly around as the "sole occupant" I believe you would log that as PIC time. Although, the regs may say that only a student pilot may log sole occupant time as PIC, I'll have to check.(end)

Clear as mud huh?

 

[airspeedsalive]

Puddlejumper.....actually that helped quite a bit.
Thanks

 

[iflyjets4food]

iflyjets4food, Answering your original question, I would chalk it up to experience and tell the interviewers it helped learning CRM, and functioning in a two crew environment. I would also add the different things you liked, disliked, and learned from flying with different Capt's. I am sorry I interrupted the typical who knows best and whom is smarter then who and the regs say.... I am glad I am not one of those guys.

imp:

Thanks. That was all I was really looking for.

 

[puddlejumper]

iflyjets4food, Answering your original question, I would chalk it up to experience and tell the interviewers it helped learning CRM, and functioning in a two crew environment. I would also add the different things you liked, disliked, and learned from flying with different Capt's. I am sorry I interrupted the typical who knows best and whom is smarter then who and the regs say.... I am glad I am not one of those guys.

imp:

Try not to incriminate yourself in the interview by admitting that you were operating the aircraft illegally from the right seat on a 135 leg. You could get the other pilot in trouble as well as the operator, for using unauthorized, untrained crewmembers in an on-demand air carrier operation.

In my computer logbook, I've got a custom column: non-req'd SIC. It doesn't add to any other of the flight time totals, but I've got where we went, who I flew with and other remarks. An interview panel may notice stuff like that.

By the way, the added comments were meant to clear up some common misconceptions of the regs regarding the logging of flight time and the differences between ACTING and LOGGING pilot in command time. Hopefully, we've all gotten a little something from the thread.

 

[iflyjets4food]

In my computer logbook, I've got a custom column: non-req'd SIC. It doesn't add to any other of the flight time totals, but I've got where we went, who I flew with and other remarks. An interview panel may notice stuff like that.

By the way, the added comments were meant to clear up some common misconceptions of the regs regarding the logging of flight time and the differences between ACTING and LOGGING pilot in command time. Hopefully, we've all gotten a little something from the thread.

I appreciate the length you have gone to in order to help me out. I've learned a little bit. I will probably do as you have done and just add a column in my computer log for non-required SIC. That will at least show something. I just always felt like it was great experience and should count for something. I got started doing it when I had like 280TT, with no real other experience outside of my ratings. It was excellent experience learning about icing, thunderstorms, turbine operations, and just basic flying of a larger airplane than I had seen before. The guys I flew with had a tremendously diverse background which allowed me to learn a whole bunch, even if I never ran the radios.