Value of a 737 type??

[tredding@swa]

OK,

1st of all... yes I MUST have too much time on my hands, I'll admit that!

2nd - not picking on anyone... so I will leave the names out (figure it out on your own time)...

3rd - I know that everyone's situation is different, some have been under the prior "stop-loss" and other factors (economic, etc.) are also at play... so now that the disclaimer is set, here we go!

MANY of you (far too many on some threads... I think a smell a dead, bloating horse around here somewhere ) have debated the issues surrounding why ANYone would spend $$$ to get a 737 type rating in order to become a SWA pilot. THIS IS NOT ANOTHER PLACE FOR YOU TO WHINE ABOUT PFT!!!!!!!

Well, yes, now that we have that 20/15 vision in our rear-view mirror (concerning the plight of our beloved industry) we COULD go on, and on , and ON about being in the Pool @ SWA is a better place than ALMOST anywhere in the airline biz today.... but let's not go there either.

Yea, yea - I hear ya - GET TO THE POINT!?

Upon looking at my position in the "unoffocial" pool list here (thanks again W8N!! ) I realized that my current #89 position is far above some who interviewed MONTHS before I did! So I looked up and down the list and found a HUGE difference between those who interviewed WITH a 737 type and those who interviewed WITHOUT the type.

"Gee, Tred - what does that mean??"

Well, glad you asked.... for example (read disclaimer above before you flame me) someone who interviewed in June 2001 and did not type until March 2002 is 119 places BELOW me in the pool.....( I interviewed Jan '02 w/ a 737 type) SO, if/when classes start up, AND they run 20 wet souls per class, my fellow poolie who interviewed w/o a type will be 6 classes behind me! (not including the "real" vs. unofficial pool list factoring)

If you look at the recently passed contract extension those who climb out of the pool soon will be blessed with lots of stock options upon starting class. This grant is on a DECLINING scale with later hire dates getting SMALLER grants. This will mean $$$ at some point in the future. My senority number will be lower than those who will start after me, but interviewed BEFORE me without being typed. Therefore, I will upgrade sooner, be off probation sooner, etc., etc.!

I am not going to attempt to put all of this into an actual $ figure, but I think we can all see the value in believing in yourself, making an investment in your future and having the spirit and attitude that drives some people to take a CHANCE!!

On a post WAY back whenever, I put my $.02 in on the whole SWA/PFT dead horse thread.... I broke down the actual cost of my type rating (all expenses included) as $8200. Additionally, IF I get out of the pool before my next birthday, I will have 17 years with SWA. That is 6205 days, OR $1.33 per day for my 737 type.
About the same as buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks!?!?

I believe that the difference in pay and stock options, upgrading sooner, etc. will more than offset my 737 type costs.

For those of you who want to be part of the SWA culture, I highly recommend that you show up to your interview WITH a B-737 type in your pocket. IF you really,really,really,really,REALLY believe that you are what it takes to be part of the team and don't want to work for just ANY airline.... then take a chance, believe in your dream and GO FOR IT!!

For those of you who don't have a burning desire to be @ SWA that is also fine, I have no desire to be a Burger King manager, a police officer, a doctor, an attorney, etc., etc., but I respect those who are because it is your life - do with it what you choose - but for God's sake, be happy, life is short!!

Regards - Tred

 

[King Nothing]

I think you have to look at the economics of the situation. Granted, going into the interview is better than not simply because 1. You've showed them you're really interested in working for them and it shows, and 2. You will obviously be put to the head of the line for a class date. Clearly you'll have a better senority number by getting a class date vs. the individual who didn't have a type at the interview.

By economics I mean -- some individuals may need to drum up the financing to get the type and without having a nod from SWA to get the type it doesn't put a spark under ones butt. For some it's a gamble and would rather wait until they have a sure thing. Others, such as military pilots, get the financing through the GI bill and it's just a matter of getting the scheduling worked out. This option is one in which you could have the type prior to the interview and hence the better seniority number.

Bare in mind that getting a 737 type rating, without working for an airline, lets say a 135 operator or corporate flight department, tells most D.O.'s and flight department managers what your true intention is...wishing to work for Southwest. I know of a few folks who have been excluded from jobs because of this. So for some they'd just as well wait for Southwest to give them the nod to get the type.

I think it boils down to ones specific situation.

KN

 

[Seeniner]

I, too, must have too much time on my hands...I read this post and am now replying.

I would argue that, in general, military folks are in a better position to buy the 737 type before interviewing than civilian folks. Why? GI Bill (in many cases), and they make more money (in many cases).

$1.33 per day sure isn't much to pay, even for coffee. Before you tred to the bank happy because you paid in early and started 119 positions ahead of someone who delayed paying (for whatever reason), you might want to see how old those pilots are. They may have 25 years to give. They also may have a post somewhere spouting the virtues of going the civilian route vs. the military route arguing they can (could) get hired at a much younger age, and therefore make more money than military folks could over a career. Like King Nothing said, it depends on one's situation. Like the King (Elvis) said, "A little less conversation, a little more action."

In this day and age, this is all meaningless babble that. We need the economy to turn around.

 

[jll]

737 type funding

I got my 737 type in May. There were a total of 7 in my class, six were military. Most using GI bill. I was not as wise in my younger years to sign up, but will get a small tax break. The one civ in the class was a furloughed fella which had the state pay his way via unemployment bennies. Something the unemployed may want to investigate.

 

[HOUMAN]

This debate was better back in 2000, when all the airlines were hiring. Now it is kind of a moot point.

By the way, if you are thinking you were turned down by an airline just because you have a 737 type, you are fooling yourself. I know for a fact that you can get hired at FedEx, jetBlue and Alaska with a "2 week" type rating.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Dork!!

I am GLAD I don't have to work with DORKS like you, bragging about a "projected" start date......AND happy to rub your fellow classmate's noses in the dirt all because of your stupid 73 type.......

This will mean $$$ at some point in the future. My senority number will be lower than those who will start after me, but interviewed BEFORE me without being typed. Therefore, I will upgrade sooner, be off probation sooner, etc., etc.!

and of course you said....

SO, if/when classes start up, AND they run 20 wet souls per class, my fellow poolie who interviewed w/o a type will be 6 classes behind me!

I sure hope your fellow "poolies' give you the well deserved blanket party IF/when you start at SWA........

You deserved to get "flamed" on this one.......

Enjoy your StarBucks!!........

 

[King Nothing]

HOUMAN, if your comment "By the way, if you are thinking you were turned down by an airline just because you have a 737 type, you are fooling yourself." was intended for my reply I believe I steered you in the wrong direction. Corporate Flight Departments and 135 charter companies are discriminating, not the airlines.

SpeedRacer, I believe the post was to debate the timing of when one get the type, before the interview or after when told by SWA and what the consequences are. I don't think we are trying to rub each others face in the dirt, much like I'd like to do with yours.

KN

 

[JayhawkDude]

No Code Red

I sure hope your fellow "poolies' give you the well deserved blanket party IF/when you start at SWA........

We poolies are in this together. Period.

 

[tredding@swa]

speedy shows his true colors...

The point, as correctly made by King Nothing, was to explain the value of going to an SWA interview with type in hand for those who are "on the fence" concerning the issue.

As JayhawkDude also points out, we are all in this together... and I have NEVER, nor would I EVER, make a disparaging remark towards a fellow poolie or another employee when we are ALL (finally)on property @ SWA.

However Speedy, it is rather nice of you to include your real name in the Subject line of your post... perhaps you should continue to put it in all future posts so we can easily identify your responses!?

It must feel good to be so angry and negative, taking parts of my post out of context and choosing to turn it into something it was not intended to be.... my teenager has a term that fits perfectly here..... "it must suck to be you"....

Have a great day everyone! Tred

 

[ivauir]

it depends ....

In my case not interviewing with the type will mean a great deal. If my pool date had been 6 Septmepter I would already be an employee @ SWA. So I figure it will cost me something on the order of 1 year of senority. But there are MANY people who interview with the type and don't get hired. It will always be a little bit of a gamble no matter what you choose. When the economy is good and lots of people are hiring going to the interview without the type is probably the safe/conservative bet ... but then if you roll 9-11...

Get the type pre interview if:
- you are a fanatic about working for SWA
- you are prepared to face disappointment and will interview as many times as it takes
- you have EVERYTHING else in order
ie
- a great resume (1500 PIC turbine +)
- a great suit
- interview prep
- straight teeth and otherwise good personal appearance (seriously I'd pay for dental work before the type, you'll look better, be more confident and interview better)

I would seriously consider a 4 year degree before the type too, even though they hire without a degree it is not that common and those guys tend to have awesum aviation credentials.

In short: I wish I'd interviewed with the type (in hindsight), but I would have been even more nervous at the interview knowing I'd already paid 7+ grand and that money was wasted if i didn't get hired. Ultimatly, everyone has to go with their own gut.

PS Speed racer, we dorks are glad you don't work with us too!