V ref vs. V approach

[RubberNeck]

The plane in question is a Falcon 900EX

Thanks
RN

 

[2EASYPilot]

The plane in question is a Falcon 900EX

Thanks
RN

Wiping the power off a heavy 900EX at ref and 50ft is something I usually avoid...a little extra speed is preferred.

 

[avbug]

Holding Vref + 5 or 10 isn't necessary, nor are your landing numbers valid if you do. Touching down at or below Vref is fine. Excess speed must be dissipated somehow. You can do it by flying on speed, or using excess braking and reverse thrust unnecessarily. If you need extra speed on the approach use it, but merely flying higher because you feel like an extra margin is helping...is not.

Tell the Lear driver to look at the AOA gauge next time he's flying at Ref +0. It's WAY in the green. Plenty of kinetic energy left for flying.

AoA doesn't necessarily equate to kinetic energy. You can have that gauge in the middle of the green arc sitting on the ground with no speed and no airflow...and zero kinetic energy. Alpha tells you about aerodynamic condition, not energy.

 

[slotationdriver]

[QUOTEAt 50', Vref, close 'em. Unless of course Vref adjustments are dictated due to wind conditions.
__________________
][/QUOTE]
This is how they figure the landing distance for the Ultra. Go into a short strip with an ultra, you will want to follow this. Last week at simuflight they said that in ice you must fly REF + 8 in the ultra minimum. anyone heard different.

 

[Seadogrun]

I believe the landing distances are derrived from chopping power at 50 above the end of the runway. This way they get the lowest possible landing distances. The test pilots are NOT worrried about pax comfort and probably land pretty hard and go to max braking. Pilots must keep this in mind when choosing to go into a short runway near the max. runway required. On one hand we can "cheat" and cross the runway threshold below 50, but on the other hand we most likely(depending on type) are not chopping power at 50 ft.

Another note: Not all aircraft does Vref = 1.3 Vso. For instance in the Challenger it is 1.4 Vso.

 

[DrProc]

Just remember, there are more accidents being fast and running off the end of the runway then there are getting too slow and landing short of the runway.

 

[deadstick]

scroll to 7/1/06, there's a nice chat about Vref...

APTAP

 

[ksu_aviator]

I got in an argument with an examiner about this very point. I let him win the argument, but I verified my answer shortly after the check ride and I was correct.

I checked in the AFM under the performance section. It referred me to a chapter that explained the landing procedure. I suggest that you read that section for your aircraft because it may have some variences.

For the Lear 20's 30's and 45 the AFM gives a specific hat, speed and throttle location. They list 50 feet (55 in the 45) on Vref and throttle levers biskly moved to idle. Landing is then accoplished with minimal float and maximum breaking (thrust reversers are not factored into the landing performance).

 

[Waldom]

Performance calculations are based on Vref and decreasing at a point 50' over the threshhold. I don't believe anything is mentioned regarding a power setting in F.A.R. 25.

 

[gunfyter]

This fellow routinely will fly ref+0 and touch down Vref -5-10 ....what the consensus????

Thanks
RN

I vote for ref -5-10. Has worked for 25 yrs for me.