V.America- u know your pay rates are worse than Spirits, right?

[waveflyer]

You guys are going after the wrong group-

That said- I disagree with any un-unionized group that collectively bargains. You want the people who represent you at the negotiating table to be as independent of the company as YOU would be if you were negotiating a contract for yourself. Seniority and collective bargaining simply does NOT work without a legal certified union to represent you.

 

[Fly2AK]

Your kind of right about QX. However, at QX you need to be there for 17 years to get that $120 per hour and the FO's will never see 2nd year FO pay that VA FO's receive. Also I believe that the VA pay rates have gone up to, I believe 125 per hour. Don't know about you but if my only 2 choices were VA and QX I would choose to make 120 an hour in 5 years vs 17 years. With that said I still maintain my position that all pilot groups need to retake their careers and push the bar higher. Hats off to Spirit guys which have done just this. Congrats on the TA, spirit! Now the rest of us need to get to work on this same issue.

 

[NEDude]

You know why UAL's pay rates suck? Because when UAL went into bankruptcy court they asked for B6 pay rates at the time.

And check QX's top Capt. pay rate. Its HIGHER than Virgin's.

No it is not. Regarding VA, the information on APC is not up to date, not official information and not complete. The current VA captain pay scale tops out at $133/hr at year ten. Incidently, if you go by the information on APC, our ten year captain pay is $11/hr more than USAirways east pay for a ten year A320 captain, and only $2/less for the same position on the west. Additionally it is a whopping $1/hr less than 10 yr A320 captain pay at United.

When you bring up what happened in bankruptcy, please remember to bring up everything the company asked for. For example, they also asked for even more relaxation of scope so they could outsource more jobs. Who originally relaxed scope and allowed the outsourcing? ALPA.

Pay rates may be lower due to JetBlue, but the reason thousands of pilots are unemployed and ready to jump on at new start-ups is due to ALPA giving up scope and allowing outsourcing.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

YEAH! That $105 Airbus Capt. pay rate is looking pretty good! There are Regional RJ jobs that pay more than that. And in ONLY 3 more YEARS the FIRST guy hired will top out at $120.

Nice.

This is the problem. Guys like Funijaakr look at VA and think this is SHWEEET compared to regional salaries. Sad.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Problem is.... VA pilots can't strike....

Yeah. They can walk out.

 

[tzskipper]

For how long?

Rez,

With all due respect, has ALPA done anything to bring VA pilots into the fold?

You imply the need to organize, but irregardless of any past ALPA contribution made by an individual VA pilot, as far as I can tell ALPA has done nothing in the past but try to cost these same pilots their current jobs.

Assuming the pilots decide to pursue representation, what is the eventual solution to the question of who it should be? I would not blame the VA pilots for taking their business somewhere else after what has transpired.

 

[hyflyin]

This is the problem. Guys like Funijaakr look at VA and think this is SHWEEET compared to regional salaries. Sad.....

Ah.... BILL....I think Funijaakr is being sarcastic.
:beer:

 

[waveflyer]

This is the problem. Guys like Funijaakr look at VA and think this is SHWEEET compared to regional salaries. Sad.....

And what companies created the "regional" industry? What pilot groups have been complicit in it's growth?

The full circle Bill that I talked w/ you about before-
you guys sell out RJ flying to keep a bit more for yourself - and it puts very real downward pressure on everyone's wages- including yours- regional pilots will never have great leverage to up their pay- and no vote on how little or much flying gets contracted to them-

The ex Aloha and ATA guys at VA would have more leverage to up wages if they didn't know that the current VA wages provide a real step up for thousands of very good and qualified rj drivers- it's why FO pay is pretty consistent with rj capt pay.-

I lost all respect for Delta when around 2006- fully out of bk and on the upswing DALPA voted to allow 90seaters- (configured to 76-80pax) in order to get more pay for themselves. DAlpa have the least integrity and are the biggest cause for the race to the bottom this industry has seen in the last 10 years

 

[waveflyer]

Rez,

With all due respect, has ALPA done anything to bring VA pilots into the fold?

You imply the need to organize, but irregardless of any past ALPA contribution made by an individual VA pilot, as far as I can tell ALPA has done nothing in the past but try to cost these same pilots their current jobs.

Assuming the pilots decide to pursue representation, what is the eventual solution to the question of who it should be? I would not blame the VA pilots for taking their business somewhere else after what has transpired.

Spirit is ALPA...Seemed to work

 

[Whine Lover]

No...."Tim Martins is ALPA."