USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!

[get2flyin]

Still awaiting that answer to be fenced off any wide body flying for the length of your career?!?!?!?!

Simple answer: No. We're one big happy family now and that's a two sided coin for both sides. You think you can bully the West through the use of majority and maybe at some level that's true. That's Democracy in action and sometimes, it sucks. Congratulations, you'll get to bid into any West base position that your seniority can hold. Flip side: West pilots will get to bid on the Widebody flying (as crappy as it is) in addition to any East base. Good luck trying to fence anybody out or into anything. That will be a quick DFR.

And in regards to that: The 9th (*and judge Wake, for that matter) decision was in regards to DFR, not DOH. Nobody has given anybody the legal go-ahead to disregard the NIC award any more than the implementation of USAPA gave the company the right to blow off the work rules or the pay rates the work groups were contractually bound to. USAPA inherited the contracts the pilots currently fly under and they inherited the Nic list. Disregarding it would be the same as deciding East pilots can fly West airplanes tomorrow. You just don't have that kind of authority. But hey, what do I know....go ahead and try it.

 

[TWA Dude]

That's a funny spin "threatening to dump ALPA." Really, really funny. I believe we did more than threaten.

No spin. Before you did it it was only a threat. It didn't change our position.

But it wasn't any sort of extortion to get West concessions; it was pure, utter hatred for ALPA and all it had become.

You keep saying that but we keep not believing you. Neither did the jury and judges, BTW. Remember the Bradford letter?

... and as soon as the west stops WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME with this legal battle to cash in and rule the seniority list of an airline system they never could have dreamed of working for.....well, then we'll all be on our way to better conditions.

Now that's what we call spin. Since the East withdrew from joint negotiations in 2007 you've been the instigators of this mess and blaming the victim doesn't change that.

Either that, or like Crzy says, see you in court in another five years.

Whatever it takes.

Really TWA......slam dunk?.....9th to blow our heads off when we negotiate DOH??

Were you paying attention at all during the trial? Have you read the 9th ruling?

Up to now you guys, at least in your Internet incarnations, were more than just a bit rude and arrogant; now, y'all just seem pathetic.

If you think message boards reflect reality then your world is a very scary place indeed...

 

[PCL_128]

When we win the LOA93 pay grievance we won't care one way or the other.

And what if you lose the LOA 93 arbitration? Hate to break it to you, but that's the far more likely outcome. Will you then feel the need to finally stop being obstructionists and start working with the West pilots instead of against them? Every pilot in this country has a dog in this fight, because your shameful $124/hr top out pay rate on the 737/Airbus is holding all of us back.

 

[Crzipilot]

And what if you lose the LOA 93 arbitration? Hate to break it to you, but that's the far more likely outcome. Will you then feel the need to finally stop being obstructionists and start working with the West pilots instead of against them? Every pilot in this country has a dog in this fight, because your shameful $124/hr top out pay rate on the 737/Airbus is holding all of us back.

Hey PCL128....

You really have no reason to be in this thread, talking about our pay rate. You see, you assisted in the grass roots destruction of this career.

GULFSTREAM.....PFT to a Sacb owner. And don't give us, I'm reformed, admited my sins now a pro Alpa shrill.....

 

[Crzipilot]

Ahhh Yes, the wide body fence. Didn't say what we had currently. I said fenced of Wide Body flying for YOUR CAREER> I.E. Never to bid onto it. Ready to sign up for that?

 

[Crzipilot]

And a little excerpt from the decision. I will admit I haven't read the whole thing, but will as I get a chance here...

Although it is common for a merger to raise the issue of
integrating seniority lists, this case contains an added wrinkle.
The East Pilots, who were dissatisfied with the seniority integration
proposal ALPA arrived at through the union’s internal
arbitration, led a successful effort to decertify ALPA and
replace it with a new union, US Airline Pilots Association
(“USAPA”). Headed by an East Pilot, USAPA was constitutionally
committed to pursuing date-of-hire principles, in contrast
to ALPA, whose merger policy committed it to pursuing
the arbitrated seniority list."

Read this passage carefully. ALPA arbitration is NOT arbitration, is is POLICY!! A rose by any other name. Jacobs tried to infer the FAA in oral argument. That fell on deaf ears, because the FAA doesn't apply to RLA unions. The NMB company/union arbitrations are LEGALLY enforcable arbitrations.

This case is not about arbitrations, it's about a VOTE and the MAJORITY understood that. Bybee had no solution but voting stalemate, future litigation for years to come and quite possibly bankruptcy for the labor unions. The MAJORITY saw it for what it was.

 

[TWA Dude]

Read this passage carefully. ALPA arbitration is NOT arbitration, is is POLICY!!

I think what you're trying to say is that ours wasn't done under the auspices of the NMB like arbitrations with the company are. That is true. However, it was still an agreed-to event and both sides knew it was binding (despite the perjurious testimony of certain Easties). But all that's irrelevant to the DFR case. I know USAPA is hellbent on testing Seham's legal theories so in court is probably where we'll end up again.

I'm sure you realize by now that but for the ripeness issue the DFR violation of redoing the seniority list is obvious and egregious. Our lawyers will be ready and your lawyer will be Seham. Good luck.

 

[BeCareful!]

And what if you lose the LOA 93 arbitration? Hate to break it to you, but that's the far more likely outcome. Will you then feel the need to finally stop being obstructionists and start working with the West pilots instead of against them? Every pilot in this country has a dog in this fight, because your shameful $124/hr top out pay rate on the 737/Airbus is holding all of us back.

Well yeah, PCL, your history and that of your employer's are certainly shining examples of holding onto the highest standards and pursuing nothing but the best for all involved. Jesus.

Yes, our g'damn pay is shameful. GUESS WHO "NEGOTIATED" IT?!?!?!

That's right, your beloved ALPA. That is one of a plethora of reasons we voted ALPA off the farm (no matter how many times twa dude stands there, arms folded, shaking his head telling the world that it was only the Nic.) Furthermore, guess who's dirtbag wages our management was shooting for back in the ALPA consession stand days? Yeah, Tranny's, AWA's, etc. Or, I guess somewhere between there and GIA's....that's where we ended up under ALPA.....ALPA!!!! We are where we are because of dirtbags like you, and now you have the disingenious gall to point fingers.

You hate to break it to me?? That's funny, how many times have all the ALPA lovers said "hate to break it to you, but your gonna lose the appeal"?
The day you, as a premiere Internet Troll, break anything significant to me will be a cold day in PHX in August.

 

[Crzipilot]

I think what you're trying to say is that ours wasn't done under the auspices of the NMB like arbitrations with the company are. That is true. However, it was still an agreed-to event and both sides knew it was binding (despite the perjurious testimony of certain Easties). But all that's irrelevant to the DFR case. I know USAPA is hellbent on testing Seham's legal theories so in court is probably where we'll end up again.

I'm sure you realize by now that but for the ripeness issue the DFR violation of redoing the seniority list is obvious and egregious. Our lawyers will be ready and your lawyer will be Seham. Good luck.

Well as soon as I need to spend a good amount of time on the throne I will read through and use my layman's understanding and form my own opinion of what the decision means. Which that opinion will be that, an opinion and utterly meaningless, just as your is.

At first blush, it looks like, yup...thrown out due to ripeness. Yup, that arbitration was an internal ALPA policy, which obviously can be vacated as neither of us are represented by ALPA.....USAPA is free to negotiate a new CBA with the company, and section 22 can contain whatever they want in there. THEN when that CBA is voted in, then it will need to be looked at, at how section 22 comes out, and THEN it will be determined if you have a leg to stand on for DFR. Any of Wakes rulings injunctions etc etc are null and void. Why??? because the case is gone and done. The courts have said, until something actually happens, you can then file a DFR. Will the DFR be successful I guess that's your 2 million dollar bet you'll have to place. Again of course, after seeing how section 22 comes out looking like.

 

[T B O N E]

I hope all of US Air rolls inverted and pulls. Preferably from a low altitude. Some things are just too broke to fix