USAPA Trial

[Crzipilot]

Yes, and a democratic vote is not grounds for dfr, just because you are outnumbered......

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Not taking sides, BUT, DFR cases have traditionally been EXTREMELY tough to prove, let alone collect from.

The common man has no love of unions, and this is looking just like a lovers spat to most people (IE a jurist).

Before the west (or east) guys get their hopes up too high for a slam dunk, be ready for a verdict from left field.

Nu

 

[get2flyin]

Yes, and a democratic vote is not grounds for dfr, just because you are outnumbered......

So using your logic, if we merged with the larger NEW Delta and "we the pilots" wanted to democratically vote to staple the smaller NEW USAir pilots to the bottom of the list, you would be OK with that? Riiiiiiight.

 

[Cowboy75]

Gee that's funny. I've had lots of DAL guys claim the same thing (that they got screwed). I guess it was a pretty fair integration after all?

And how would a USAPA-like in-house union make things better? Oh, it wouldn't.

All I heard during the trial was how the West was going to be protected. Over and over again, protected, protected, protected.

The truth is USAPA was wearing protection while we get the shaft!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Excuse me , that was not a "purchase" or "merge" your company had to pay to play....

Airways sucked a fee out of your company just to let you have the 'privilege" to fly for them....
This "investment" gave new meaning to the term outsourcing a contract carrier!

You do realize that had that "investment" not been "sucked out of (their) company "; US east might have very well been forced to liquidate taking Piedmont and PSA down along with it. You do realize that, don't you ?


PHXFLYR

 

[Captzaahlie]

You do realize that had that "investment" not been "sucked out of (their) company "; US east might have very well been forced to liquidate taking Piedmont and PSA down along with it. You do realize that, don't you ?


PHXFLYR

Yes I realize that X 4... during those times i was applying for sim. instructor positions because I thought Airways was about to go t1ts up. (not many other places were hiring at the time either if I recall correctly). Not only did I realize that I was one of the red headed step children immersed in that realization.

My point is that it was a business transaction, those pilots have no rights to be attached to any Airways seniority list because of it. I'm not bashing that pilot group, but the few that think they deserve some kind of 'flow" rights are in never, never land.

Did i happen to mention that i realized that?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

HAve you guys considered confronting Doug? After all, this all happened with his OK.

 

[captfred]

HAve you guys considered confronting Doug? After all, this all happened with his OK.

You are kidding-right?? Doug is the most happy guy on the planet with the 2 groups fighting with permanent B scale wages and working conditions in place.

 

[regionaltard]

You are kidding-right?? Doug is the most happy guy on the planet with the 2 groups fighting with permanent B scale wages and working conditions in place.

Yep, the status quo is just fine with Doug. Another perfect example of dumb pilots making idiot managers look like geniuses.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yes I realize that X 4... during those times i was applying for sim. instructor positions because I thought Airways was about to go t1ts up. (not many other places were hiring at the time either if I recall correctly). Not only did I realize that I was one of the red headed step children immersed in that realization.

My point is that it was a business transaction, those pilots have no rights to be attached to any Airways seniority list because of it. I'm not bashing that pilot group, but the few that think they deserve some kind of 'flow" rights are in never, never land.

Did i happen to mention that i realized that?

Agreed...but a guy can dream, can't he ... ???


PHXFLYR

 

[DiverDriver]

My point is that it was a business transaction, those pilots have no rights to be attached to any Airways seniority list because of it. I'm not bashing that pilot group, but the few that think they deserve some kind of 'flow" rights are in never, never land.

Did i happen to mention that i realized that?

And AWA and USAir merging wasn't a business transaction? I just find what people define as "saving" or "merging" are not hard definitions but really fuzzy logic.

And don't take my assertions seriously as in I'm seeking placement on your seniority list. The point I'm making in this whole East/West seniority list arguement is that anyone can argue anything. It seems everyone is just trying to be the one shouting loudest so they seem most right.

ALPA East was wrong for strict DOH only. AWA was wrong thinking Nic was right if MidAtlantic was left off the list. Their planes were on USAir cert. If West wants support/sympathy then they should right that wrong too.

IMO of course.

 

[Lampshade]

The MDA might have been on the cert but the pilots were on furlough from mainline. Furlough = zero seniority.

 

[FDJ2]

ALPA East was wrong for strict DOH only. AWA was wrong thinking Nic was right if MidAtlantic was left off the list. Their planes were on USAir cert. If West wants support/sympathy then they should right that wrong too.

IMO of course.

Rights and wrongs were settled by the agreed upon process with the agreed upon arbitrator making the call. Now it's time for folks to honor final and binding and move on.

 

[TWA Dude]

AWA was wrong thinking Nic was right if MidAtlantic was left off the list.

What we think is irrelevent. Nicolau knew all about the MDA pilots (furloughees) and he made his decision. That's what arbitrators do.

 

[DustyBottoms]

What we think is irrelevent. Nicolau knew all about the MDA pilots (furloughees) and he made his decision. That's what arbitrators do.

That's what I don't get! Two parties will NEVER agree on something that they are so emotional about. I don't understand what could be more fair than the process that took place to get the combined seniority list. There were three NEUTRAL people who heard each side's case, talked it over, and decided on a list! Why is it that the East pilots are still back at square one, trying to tell the West pilots what fair should be?

And for Crzipilot to say that majority vote ("democratic") is fair in this situtation, is simply wrong. If that was the case, then why even have a process; whether it be DOH, ratio's, arbitrators or whatever, in place??? If a majority vote was THE fair way to do a list, then the smaller of the two pilot groups should just resign themselves to being stapled to the bottom.

I think most of the East pilots will just never get it... that's what I'm resigned to.