USAPA thinks it can control ALL jumpseats in US

[TWA Dude]

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing ALPA is a defendant....so there ya go.

Nope. The defendents are 18 named AWA pilots (including two who are USAPA members) and 100 "John Does" to be named later -- or not.

 

[Deadalus]

If I were still flying I probably wouldn't deny a jumpseat because you don't know who the good guys are and who the scumbags are. I do know a few SW, AK, and UA guys that deny to anyone East however.

 

[Morgoth]

The funny thing is that this so-called injunction would be completely unenforceable. All the captain of a flight would have to say is "Under the authority vested in me by the Federal Aviation Regulations, I am denying the jumpseat in the interest of the safety of flight." End of story. If an East guy complained that he was being discriminated against, all the captain would have to say is "prove it." Bottom line is, he's the PIC and the authority is his.

Having said that, I do NOT believe the jumpseat should ever be used as a political tool.

 

[trainer8]

:smash: Disinformation Warning!!!

Ya know, sounds to me like a west guy is bent out of shape about something, since the cut and paste neatly avoided the list of defendants!

Let me guess, the defendants are the people, property and corporation formerly known as America West?

They aren't trying to take control of everyone's jumpseats, children-they are trying to keep someone else (from out in the desert I would guess) from taking them away!

What a sham of a smokescreen! Saw right through it, cactus, I'm not Airways, but I've been around the patch a couple of times and you're really going to have to do alot better...you should be ashamed of yourself! In fact I would be given to wonder how you could survive a night out with the crew-perhaps you are a slamclicker!

If you take the time to read the thing and understand the egregious verbosity of the leagaleese you would understand that the injunction is against the following:

III. Issue a Preliminary Injunction, the same to be made permanent on final judgment, that orders all Defendants, and any of their officers, agents, or employees, be prohibited from the following acts:

Ah, there's that Defendant word...perhaps America West methinks.

3. From denying, conspiring to deny, or instigating denial of, access to "jump seats" on aircraft operated by any commercial carrierbecause of suspected membership in, or support of, USAPA, or status as an "East pilot," or because of any pretextual excuse to hide such anti-USAPA animus, or animus against East pilots;

Perhaps west pilots control the Jumpseat committee...

Perhaps west pilots are childlishly denying jumpseats to east pilots. Perhaps west pilots are making comments like the one I saw earlier "uscaba" and "those east guys shouldn't be getting a ride on aaa" while sitting in the cockpit of an aaa airplane.

What this is really saying is that "West pilots are not to interfear with East pilots jumpseat travel"

It's really not that hard to understand...unless you like the desert I guess.

Well, I tell you what. One of the two people that denyed me a jumpseat pre-911 was an America West pilot. I have never had a problem with any of the US Air crews. They've put my wife and I in First Class, done anything they could to accomodate me when I was jumpseating. Even some of the Airways gate agents have gone out of their way for me.

I've had a great time with the East guys and if you guys from out west have a problem, too bad. Any old US Air/Airways/Piedmont or whomever, you're welcome aboard as long as I have anything to say about it!

"Facts are stubborn things" -- John Adams

 

[weasel_lips]

Com'on weasel don't hate, the shoe fits you soo well!! But do like the rest of your kind does and sue or cry to the mods but no matter what you or your ussapy friends attempt the smell will never wash off of you

WD.

Your posts are just hate filled garbadge. The kind of stuff you might see on a bathroom wall. Someone needs to clean it up, so I flag it for the mods.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Oh geezzzz.....Aunt Mabel beating up Uncle Harold again...a private family matter...that should be kept ...private.

 

[68pilot]

Yep, might be a few of them around, better check your list.

 

[RedRum]

This is so damn childish.

The whole time I was reading that legal brief I couldn't help but envision the little boy on the playground that is getting his butt kicked and goes crying to the teacher.

It's called LIFE. Sometime you're the windshield sometimes you're the bug.

What a total waste of the limited resources ASAPA has. Has anyone here ever heard the term what you resists persists? The more USAPA tries to play this game, the more fuel they add to the fire.

I totally understand the East pilots' concerns. Niclau doesn't seem fair, but these types of motions don't do a thing to bolster any support for you on a national level.

East pilots are more than welcome at NWA. I agree wholeheartedly that using the jumpseat for political reasons is totally out of line and unbecoming of an airline pilot. Anyone that denies a jumpseat for anything other than safety is a doorknob and needs to get a life.

 

[glasspilot1]

The funny thing is that this so-called injunction would be completely unenforceable.

I agree Morgoth. What worries me is that if this goes far enough the politicians (FAA, Congress) might throw up there hands and declare jumpseats are only for FAA inspections, AND THAT'S IT!

 

[Ocity]

Yes thay are good to go, as are Skywest pilot (voted ALPA down) AA pilots (Dumped ALPA) and all USAir pilots on each coast. The jumpseat is not a political forum.

How conveniently unrelated. Apples....Meet Oranges!

USAPA pilots will ALWAYS be banned from my cockpit.

Period. The end. That's it. Scabford and his nerdy band of pseudo tough guys; along with his walking STD of an attorney can try and sue me.

It's not a political statement, It's not safe.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

I agree Morgoth. What worries me is that if this goes far enough the politicians (FAA, Congress) might throw up there hands and declare jumpseats are only for FAA inspections, AND THAT'S IT!

Nope. The only way the FAA or Congress would get involved is if there was a series of violations, crashes, or safety issues. Some pilots whining about not being able to use the jumpseat wont endanger the jumpseat privilige.

If you complain to the FAA they will say it's the captain's authority and he can deny access for any reason. If he denies the jumpseat because he doesn't like your haircut...well tough crap.

 

[RedRum]

How conveniently unrelated. Apples....Meet Oranges!

USAPA pilots will ALWAYS be banned from my cockpit.

Period. The end. That's it. Scabford and his nerdy band of pseudo tough guys; along with his walking STD of an attorney can try and sue me.

It's not a political statement, It's not safe.

You must rule that cockpit with a real chip on your shoulder. Maybe you should take some time off to cool down a little bit. Seriously.

Let the poor commuter take a seat in the back at least. Like someone said earlier...you don't have to like the guy/gal. Just give them the ride they need to get home to their family. If the shoe were on the other foot you would want the same level of respect.

 

[Crzipilot]

Yup that's the rule, and I'm sure USAPA agrees with that rule too. You see the nice cut and paste from the law suit hides the bigger picture here. You see, the lawsuit is/was basically a shot across the bow to the west guys who banded together and decided to attempt to derail/run up costs/block phone lines (including false calls to a safety line)/attempt to screw up mail system, and postings that came around calling for friends and other carriers to deny the j/s to east pilots, for the whole reason that they are east pilots. I.E. interfere with someone trying to commute.

Now I know you west guys could careless about a east guy trying to commute, but I guess OUR union does. Now if you read the whole lawsuit, it basically says, We want the West guys to stop with the childish games, and sending feces through the mail, calling an update number 2500 times in a 2 week period (or some crap like that, believe it was the previous MEC chairman for America West doing that????)
In no way do I read that lawsuit, and see it saying, prevent any captain at any carrier from denying the jumpseat, but more like saying, keep the west guys from starting a political jumpseat war.

 

[Crzipilot]

Oh, posted on another board, in case some would like some info on the lawsuit.

Fellow pilots,

The following is an update with regard to USAPA's current legal action.

AWAPPA and its directors have submitted a Motion to Dismiss that will be considered by the federal court this Friday in the context of USAPA's injunction request.

Significantly, AWAPPA's motion actually assumes the truth of USAPA's allegations. In other words, AWAPPA takes the position that the lawsuit should be dismissed even if it is true that AWAPPA and others unlawfully conspired to send excrement through the mail, engage in threats of physical violence, and engage in criminal telephonic and electronic sabotage.

The gist of AWAPPA's motion is that, due to alleged technical defects relating to USAPA's federal cause of action, that cause of action should be dismissed. And, if the federal cause of action is dismissed, then the multiple state law causes of action should be dismissed based on the federal court's lack of jurisdiction over state law claims..

AWAPPA's motion, therefore, is nothing more than a technicality-based delay tactic. In the event the motion is successful, USAPA will simply re-file the action in North Carolina state court. In our view, nothing will have been accomplished for the defendants other than the generation of additional attorneys' fees. The defendants' "success" will merely result in the allegations of criminal and otherwise unlawful misconduct being evaluated by a North Carolina state court jury.

In the meantime, certain individual defendants have inquired with USAPA concerning the possibility of settlement. Due to the fact that the litigation is in its early stages, USAPA has responded -- depending on the conduct of the particular defendant -- with either low-cost or no-cost offers of settlement contingent on the individual's commitment to refrain from future unlawful conduct.

We are aware that certain of the defendants are soliciting money from their fellow pilots to finance their defense against the allegations of criminal and otherwise unlawful conduct. In our view, the better economic and moral decision would be to admit their wrong-doing and make a commitment to refrain from future criminal and unlawful activity. As the litigation progresses, however, USAPA will become more reluctant to agree to a low-cost or no-cost settlement.

USAPA is aware that certain individuals have represented that the lawsuit seeks the compromise the defendants' position regarding seniority integration. That is untrue. The current litigation does not seek to diminish the ability of any pilot to assert his or her position on seniority integration and/or to take legal action in defense of that position. The focus of this litigation is the unacceptability of criminal and otherwise unlawful tactics.




--------------------

USAPA, the union for USAirways Pilots

 

[eaglesview]

How conveniently unrelated. Apples....Meet Oranges!

USAPA pilots will ALWAYS be banned from my cockpit.

Period. The end. That's it. Scabford and his nerdy band of pseudo tough guys; along with his walking STD of an attorney can try and sue me.

It's not a political statement, It's not safe.

I'd even let you with all your ranting and raving ride. I guess you don't have enough self control to keep it safe.