USAPA recap...

[Green]

Of the 161 West furloughs, how many were new hires?

I believe it was in the neighborhood of 12? The rest of us had about 4 years LOS...

 

[BeCareful!]

For what it's worth, west bros and hoes, I am distraught that Dave is being furloughed before some CEL pilots. That's plain wrong, and I've expressed this to USAPA reps.

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

 

[imacdog]

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

A USAPA guy saying that management is effing things up? Something doesn't sound right here.

 

[OnTheDole]

For what it's worth, west bros and hoes, I am distraught that Dave is being furloughed before some CEL pilots. That's plain wrong, and I've expressed this to USAPA reps.

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

From my perspective, the enemy here is the union that turns a blind eye to the company 'EFF'ing things up because it only screws the west pilots and therefore isn't something to worry about.

 

[MCDU]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

 

[Soulfly]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections . Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.
M

All of the items that you reference in your post occured prior to the merger, sans the "NIC". All of the horrible things that happened to your pilot group happened well before AWA was part of the mix.

Who is this 17 year continuos service pilot you reference. Was he a mainline pilot that could bid the A330? We all know the answer. Nice soundbite though.

And if fences were so important, then why did your merger committee not argue for those during arbitration? I have read the transcripts, and that was not an arguing point from your side.

Unprecedented, Nicolau, which btw the way was the East MEC's top choice, called both sides back after the presentations were complete. Asked if either side wanted to change their positions, as he was not going to rule based on either argument. The East response was, no sir we are confident with DOH.

Peace

 

[OnTheDole]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

So its ok for the west pilots to get a bit of screwing from the east pilots because the East guys have been screwed several times in the past by the previous USAir management?

Sorry to hear about the ******************** sandwich you've been handed throughout your carrier - but I do not believe its right for you to seek reparatons from the AWA guys for those sandwiches. USAPA believes the west pilot is the easy target - we'll see

 

[MCDU]

Quote:It happened prior to the merger. Exactly. USAIR was setting itself up for the merger. The cuts were done in order to merge.
DOH is what we believe in. Fences and protections were on the table with DOH. Thats the way all other employee groups merge and thats the way we merged with Piedmont and PSA. (Empire merged with Piedmont).

This whole debate about DOH is like trying to convince someone who is pro-choice to change his beliefs to being pro-life.

The majority of the USAIR pilots wants DOH with fences and protections. Just like all other employee groups did.

M

 

[MCDU]

How have the West pilots been screwed? We are still separate. No lists have been merged. You are making more then us Easties and have two great bases. Nothing has changed. Almot all airlines are furloughing. AWA, AAA, CAL, Alaska. Many went out of business. Right? So whats the problem?

The one thing on the mind of a Westie is to have the Nic implemented. That way they become furlough proof and can move into seats once occuppied by real USAIR pilots. 2005 getting a 1988 hire number in East bases. Not gonna happen. If USAPA were pro Nic every Westie would be a proud USAPA member. Its all about the Nic windfall.

M

 

[Bringupthebird]

Quote:It happened prior to the merger. Exactly. USAIR was setting itself up for the merger. The cuts were done in order to merge.
DOH is what we believe in. Fences and protections were on the table with DOH. Thats the way all other employee groups merge and thats the way we merged with Piedmont and PSA. (Empire merged with Piedmont).

This whole debate about DOH is like trying to convince someone who is pro-choice to change his beliefs to being pro-life.

The majority of the USAIR pilots wants DOH with fences and protections. Just like all other employee groups did.

M

100% irrelevant. These were good arguments during negotiations and prior to arbitration, but once the arbitrator ruled, that's what you're stuck with.

You're pro-choice dribble is asinine. USAPA is more like allowing someone who is pro-choice abort a 25-year-old.

If they were polled (Bradford would never allow it by the way) I would bet you'd find the majority of ALL US Airways pilots want to move forward with contract negotiations and dump the devisive DOH crap. They see it's a non-starter. And if you can get a short-term contract with Nicolau in it, why can't you try to re-order the senority list on the next contract? USAPA knows it has zero shelf-life once the two groups are joined under one contract and the power of unity eclipses that of fear.

Oh, and let me re-read that one about USAir setting itself up for a merger. Too funny!

 

[charlie2]

All US Air pilots I fly with want to dump the devisive Nicolau crap and move on with negotiations.

 

[FDJ2]

There are no principles contained in the USAPA C&BL that are opposed to any principles of the ALPA C&BL when it was formed so many decades ago (something that ALPA cannot claim).

USAPA and it's supporters are unprincipled because of their actions. Words in USAPA's C&BLs ring hollow and will not convey principles on an unprincipled mob. The motivation for USAPA is transparent. It is nothing more than a sham union, it was spawned as a vehicle for a large mob at one pilot group to mug a smaller pilot group and attempt to steal their rightful seniority.

No one can trust USAPA or its supporters.

 

[johnnyb]

You think you understand the West but you surly don't. If we merge with UAL (absent a negotiated agreement) we want binding arbitration. And unilke the East we'll show some integrity and abide by it.

You really need to educate yourself on past events. In 2000 there were to be 1500 excess pilots as part of the UAL/AA/AAA transaction.

All furloughs to be from US Airways the remainder of the US Airways pilots to be stapled to the bottom of the American and United lists.

The deal fell apart and American went on to purchase TWA. As a former TWA'er you should be painfully aware the previous paragraphs are not flame bait.

It won't be the the ALPA love fest you're dreaming of.

 

[TWA Dude]

You really need to educate yourself on past events. ... It won't be the the ALPA love fest you're dreaming of.

I'm quite familiar with those events, thank you, but your last sentence is a non sequitor. All I said was we Westies would abide by the binding arbitration. One doesn't have to like it.

So do you predict disaster when the three-arbitrator panel rules on NW/DAL?

 

[Deadalus]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

Boy, you were just drooling when they anounced this merger weren't you. All those years of screwing and then you told yourself it was all worth staying for because your company was going to be saved from liquadation and you'd get to staple 1800 pilots under your list. Then you got really pissed when mommy told you to play fair and no a$$ f*$(ing your new brother. What a tool.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account

Which retirement account MCdoosh? The one where you claim not to even be a US Airways pilot? like right here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465

Or the one where you claim to be a UAL pilot right here:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

So which one is it Mcdoosh? Which retirement account did you lose this so called 2 million?

We'll time your answer with a calander.

Maybe it was the $25k you plunked down to buy your job at Gulfstream.

PFT-MCDU- one airline strike away from his next job!

 

[johnnyb]

All I said was we Westies would abide by the binding arbitration.

I was hoping you could read between the lines. Maybe it'll be less of an arbitration and more filling out an application: UPS - Challenge

 

[cactusboy53]

All US Air pilots I fly with want to dump the divisive Nicolau crap and move on with negotiations.

What a coincidence. All of the US Airways pilots that I fly with wanted to move on with negotiations in late summer of 2007. Why would anyone think that they could successfully cast out a decision that is a result of binding arbitration AND simultaneously toss aside a contract that would have garnered 31 days of vacation, 100% DH, 100% Mechanical, better work rules and an increase of pay that could amount to over $30,000 (east side, any way)??

 

[pilotss]

Is this horse dead YET?

Beat Beat Beat Beat,

Almost, Beat Beat Beat Beat,

I think we need a shovel, wait, better get a sledge hammer.

 

[waveflyer]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

It was your union and your fellow AAA pilot that sold you out... no one else. W/ all your whining- you still weren't sold out as much as that genX and gen Y pilot that you claim stole your job. Your career has been infinitely better than what our generation has had to date. At least you had it to be taken.