USAPA recap...

[Dr. Rumack]

Flyby,

What category was Nic when it made 'landfall'? As to your alleged inequity of the Nic list, insert binding comment here, we are soon to get our day in court. Granted, court rulings sure do not seem to matter to USAPA but at some point I think they will get the point. When a court rules in your favor I might be forced to change my tune. Until then, we'll see you in court.

 

[TWA Dude]

Of the 161 West furloughs, how many were new hires?

Offhand, I think it was seven or eight.

The most junior pilots in the group were furloughed. Thats how its supposed to work per the seniority list in place.

Don't dare lecture us about how things are supposed to work. Remember what "binding" means?

You can talk about seniority and longevity, but in the end East is just preserving its QOL.

Well, duh! We know the East is just trying to salvage their careers at our expense and we're trying to stop it. Tell us something we don't know.

The NIC award was a landfall for the West so the East overreacted to a lopsided award.

I'm gonna guess you meant to write "windfall" instead of "landfall". What windfall? Seriously, your opinion is as irrelevent as mine. Nicolau was neutral and the two pilot neutrals with him agreed almost 100%. The only lopsided thing about all this is the East's sense of entitlement. DOH = windfall for the East. That's why they want it and everyone knows it.

I don't have to understand the West. Someone looking in only has to understand the East because of their majority.

Ah, yes, that tried-and-true sense of unionism showing through: binding arbitration isn't binding if the majority doesn't like it. Puh-leeze.

 

[FDJ2]

I don't have to understand the West. Someone looking in only has to understand the East because of their majority.

There are plenty of us looking in from the outside and we understand the East.

The East didn't get what they wanted and they used their larger numbers to side step a seniority integration process they agreed to be bound by. They formed an unprincipled sham union and called it USAPA, not based on common goals and principles, but based on the desire of one pilot group to mug another.

 

[Turtle21]

There are plenty of us looking in from the outside and we understand the East.

The East didn't get what they wanted and they used their larger numbers to side step a seniority integration process they agreed to be bound by. They formed an unprincipled sham union and called it USAPA, not based on common goals and principles, but based on the desire of one pilot group to mug another.

There are no principles contained in the USAPA C&BL that are opposed to any principles of the ALPA C&BL when it was formed so many decades ago (something that ALPA cannot claim).

 

[Flybywire44]

Thanks guys, this was a good ride. I hope everything works out for everyone. Either way you'll all be riding a huge retirement wave soon so cheer up.

"Landfall" was a reference implying that the west had arrived at its destination or its goal of the Nic award.

ALPA binded to the Nic Award, we'll see what our fine court system decides. The ball will be in play for awhile.

Dr. Rumack, you definitely won't see me in court. I have better places to be!

 

[Green]

Of the 161 West furloughs, how many were new hires?

I believe it was in the neighborhood of 12? The rest of us had about 4 years LOS...

 

[BeCareful!]

For what it's worth, west bros and hoes, I am distraught that Dave is being furloughed before some CEL pilots. That's plain wrong, and I've expressed this to USAPA reps.

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

 

[imacdog]

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

A USAPA guy saying that management is effing things up? Something doesn't sound right here.

 

[OnTheDole]

For what it's worth, west bros and hoes, I am distraught that Dave is being furloughed before some CEL pilots. That's plain wrong, and I've expressed this to USAPA reps.

The enemy here, of course, is the Company, who takes every opportunity to EFF things up. I guarantee they were just giddy when they started discussing the dual list furlough....plays right into their hands.

Good luck to all and fly safe.

BC

From my perspective, the enemy here is the union that turns a blind eye to the company 'EFF'ing things up because it only screws the west pilots and therefore isn't something to worry about.

 

[MCDU]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

 

[Soulfly]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections . Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.
M

All of the items that you reference in your post occured prior to the merger, sans the "NIC". All of the horrible things that happened to your pilot group happened well before AWA was part of the mix.

Who is this 17 year continuos service pilot you reference. Was he a mainline pilot that could bid the A330? We all know the answer. Nice soundbite though.

And if fences were so important, then why did your merger committee not argue for those during arbitration? I have read the transcripts, and that was not an arguing point from your side.

Unprecedented, Nicolau, which btw the way was the East MEC's top choice, called both sides back after the presentations were complete. Asked if either side wanted to change their positions, as he was not going to rule based on either argument. The East response was, no sir we are confident with DOH.

Peace

 

[OnTheDole]

So East pilots have not been screwed enough. How about 420 planes to 220. All the while Republic and Mesa Pilots are lining up to replace our flying. Kind of like Midwest Express and Republic.
Lost 2 mill. in my retirement account and the Nic award that took a snap shot in 2005 and put new hires above E 170 Captains with 17 years of continuos service. All this with no fences and protections .
Did I leave out the bankruptcy contract in place.

It just breaks my heart when I hear how Westies are getting screwed. You still have your own flying and no lists have been merged and you are operating under the best pay scale you ever had. Give me a break. West guys getting screwed. You can always leave like you told us Easties to do. But then we did have the best contract in the industry. Thats why all those pilots on furlough came back in 1998. They quit Southwest to come back to USAIR.

M

So its ok for the west pilots to get a bit of screwing from the east pilots because the East guys have been screwed several times in the past by the previous USAir management?

Sorry to hear about the ******************** sandwich you've been handed throughout your carrier - but I do not believe its right for you to seek reparatons from the AWA guys for those sandwiches. USAPA believes the west pilot is the easy target - we'll see

 

[MCDU]

Quote:It happened prior to the merger. Exactly. USAIR was setting itself up for the merger. The cuts were done in order to merge.
DOH is what we believe in. Fences and protections were on the table with DOH. Thats the way all other employee groups merge and thats the way we merged with Piedmont and PSA. (Empire merged with Piedmont).

This whole debate about DOH is like trying to convince someone who is pro-choice to change his beliefs to being pro-life.

The majority of the USAIR pilots wants DOH with fences and protections. Just like all other employee groups did.

M

 

[MCDU]

How have the West pilots been screwed? We are still separate. No lists have been merged. You are making more then us Easties and have two great bases. Nothing has changed. Almot all airlines are furloughing. AWA, AAA, CAL, Alaska. Many went out of business. Right? So whats the problem?

The one thing on the mind of a Westie is to have the Nic implemented. That way they become furlough proof and can move into seats once occuppied by real USAIR pilots. 2005 getting a 1988 hire number in East bases. Not gonna happen. If USAPA were pro Nic every Westie would be a proud USAPA member. Its all about the Nic windfall.

M

 

[Bringupthebird]

Quote:It happened prior to the merger. Exactly. USAIR was setting itself up for the merger. The cuts were done in order to merge.
DOH is what we believe in. Fences and protections were on the table with DOH. Thats the way all other employee groups merge and thats the way we merged with Piedmont and PSA. (Empire merged with Piedmont).

This whole debate about DOH is like trying to convince someone who is pro-choice to change his beliefs to being pro-life.

The majority of the USAIR pilots wants DOH with fences and protections. Just like all other employee groups did.

M

100% irrelevant. These were good arguments during negotiations and prior to arbitration, but once the arbitrator ruled, that's what you're stuck with.

You're pro-choice dribble is asinine. USAPA is more like allowing someone who is pro-choice abort a 25-year-old.

If they were polled (Bradford would never allow it by the way) I would bet you'd find the majority of ALL US Airways pilots want to move forward with contract negotiations and dump the devisive DOH crap. They see it's a non-starter. And if you can get a short-term contract with Nicolau in it, why can't you try to re-order the senority list on the next contract? USAPA knows it has zero shelf-life once the two groups are joined under one contract and the power of unity eclipses that of fear.

Oh, and let me re-read that one about USAir setting itself up for a merger. Too funny!