USAPA recap...

OnTheDole

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So let’s recap…

USAPA Said they’ll:

1) Get a new contract in a matter or weeks – nope, not even close. You could argue that they were closer they day they took control than they are today.
2) Impose a DOH seniority list – we all know how that’s going, or not going.
3) Win a RICO suit against AWA pilots – Case dismissed, so that would be a no…
4) Get AWA pilots fired or not paying dues to a ‘Union’ that really doesn’t represent them –guess that’s a no again.

Really, besides ousting ALPA, ensuring the two pilot groups will be at each others throat for years, and lining Parkers pockets with loads of money, what have you accomplished?

If this was baseball, you wouldn’t even be sent down to the minor leagues… you’d be washing jock straps.
 

av8tor76

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get a life already..how many of these flamebait threads do we have to read everyday?? the whole forum knows your thoughts...
 

linecheck

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Flamebait is all about embellishing the truth.

The points listed in the post above are completely factual- with exception of course to the last sentence.
 
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Bringupthebird

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I would say wrt #4 that this is not a completely done deal and that everyone should make sure their own i's are dotted and t's crossed. But it is nice to see USAPA face some accountability for once. And it doesn't look good on them.
 

Flybywire44

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So let’s recap…

USAPA Said they’ll:

1) Get a new contract in a matter or weeks – nope, not even close. You could argue that they were closer they day they took control than they are today.
2) Impose a DOH seniority list – we all know how that’s going, or not going.
3) Win a RICO suit against AWA pilots – Case dismissed, so that would be a no…
4) Get AWA pilots fired or not paying dues to a ‘Union’ that really doesn’t represent them –guess that’s a no again.

Really, besides ousting ALPA, ensuring the two pilot groups will be at each others throat for years, and lining Parkers pockets with loads of money, what have you accomplished?

If this was baseball, you wouldn’t even be sent down to the minor leagues… you’d be washing jock straps.
What have they accomplished? Keeping you down on the seniority list... duh. The East pilots may be wasting money, but in the end they're making more money and having a better quality of life than the alternative.
 
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Lampshade

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USAPA's number one goal was to present a DOH based seniority list to management for approval....6 months later and still can't deliver! They are a fraud and a colossal failure. USAPA takes union progress back 50 years.
 

Bringupthebird

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When the news story begins with "Officials from the newly-defunct US Airlines Pilots Association..." then I will call it. Until then, it's just more forced transfusions to keep the cadaver looking good.
 

Bringupthebird

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I'd like to see some USAPA trading cards, you know with pictures of rookies Bradford, King, Stephan etc.and all their stats on the back.

Oops, wait they haven't done anything. Scratch the stats thing.
 

Flybywire44

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USAPA's number one goal was to present a DOH based seniority list to management for approval....6 months later and still can't deliver! They are a fraud and a colossal failure. USAPA takes union progress back 50 years.
Even if USAPA loses in the end and a DOH seniority list is not implemented you have to realize that the East still bought some time to stay in their respective airplanes and seats. The west is bitching a lot, but what have you really lost? Nothing but ALPA yet, most of you are not even paying Union dues as it is. Most of the Easties will be retiring in about 5 years and need only drag it out till then.

Talk bout a rumor, but if there is a US Air/UAL merger UAL will surly want a DOH seniority list also.
 
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TWA Dude

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The west is bitching a lot, but what have you really lost?
161 furloughs with resulting displacements and downgrades. That's plenty. Enough to sue over, even.
Talk bout a rumor, but if there is a US Air/UAL merger UAL will surly want a DOH seniority list also.
You think you understand the West but you surly don't. If we merge with UAL (absent a negotiated agreement) we want binding arbitration. And unilke the East we'll show some integrity and abide by it.
 

Fly-n-hi

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Even if USAPA loses in the end and a DOH seniority list is not implemented you have to realize that the East still bought some time to stay in their respective airplanes and seats. The west is bitching a lot, but what have you really lost? Nothing but ALPA yet, most of you are not even paying Union dues as it is. Most of the Easties will be retiring in about 5 years and need only drag it out till then.

Talk bout a rumor, but if there is a US Air/UAL merger UAL will surly want a DOH seniority list also.
With relative seniority the AAA pilots would remain in their relative positions. Nodody on either side would lose their seat or aircraft. How many times do we have to explain this to you? DOH would result in us losing our seats, not you.

Like many others you are confusing seniority with longevity. Really, how many times does this have to be explained to you?

Besides, your above comments show that you are either very selfish or very stupid. If you would drop the DOH BS I think most AWA pilots would cooperate and start paying dues. We could have streamlined this airline a long time ago and made it a little more efficient, and in this market efficiency could mean life or death for our airline. All your doing now is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

But, like you said, many of your people will retire in the next 5-10 years so what do you care. You're a buch of selfish punks.
 

Bringupthebird

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If we merge with UAL (absent a negotiated agreement) we want binding arbitration. And unilke the East we'll show some integrity and abide by it.
Until the 2 sides can be separated again, we are unfortunately joined to those who are destroying any hope of a future at US. I wouldn't expect the UAL pilots to permit mgt to get within 100 miles of a merger with this crowd.
 

Turtle21

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Like many others you are confusing seniority with longevity...
And you were serious when you wrote that.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

Flybywire44

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Of the 161 West furloughs, how many were new hires? The most junior pilots in the group were furloughed. Thats how its supposed to work per the seniority list in place. You can talk about seniority and longevity, but in the end East is just preserving its QOL. The NIC award was a landfall for the West so the East overreacted to a lopsided award. *shrugs*

I don't have to understand the West. Someone looking in only has to understand the East because of their majority.

Don't pay your dues, you're saving lots of $ that way. I wish I was not paying dues either.
 

Dr. Rumack

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Flyby,

What category was Nic when it made 'landfall'? As to your alleged inequity of the Nic list, insert binding comment here, we are soon to get our day in court. Granted, court rulings sure do not seem to matter to USAPA but at some point I think they will get the point. When a court rules in your favor I might be forced to change my tune. Until then, we'll see you in court.
 

TWA Dude

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Of the 161 West furloughs, how many were new hires?
Offhand, I think it was seven or eight.
The most junior pilots in the group were furloughed. Thats how its supposed to work per the seniority list in place.
Don't dare lecture us about how things are supposed to work. Remember what "binding" means?
You can talk about seniority and longevity, but in the end East is just preserving its QOL.
Well, duh! We know the East is just trying to salvage their careers at our expense and we're trying to stop it. Tell us something we don't know.
The NIC award was a landfall for the West so the East overreacted to a lopsided award.
I'm gonna guess you meant to write "windfall" instead of "landfall". What windfall? Seriously, your opinion is as irrelevent as mine. Nicolau was neutral and the two pilot neutrals with him agreed almost 100%. The only lopsided thing about all this is the East's sense of entitlement. DOH = windfall for the East. That's why they want it and everyone knows it.
I don't have to understand the West. Someone looking in only has to understand the East because of their majority.
Ah, yes, that tried-and-true sense of unionism showing through: binding arbitration isn't binding if the majority doesn't like it. Puh-leeze.
 

FDJ2

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I don't have to understand the West. Someone looking in only has to understand the East because of their majority.
There are plenty of us looking in from the outside and we understand the East.

The East didn't get what they wanted and they used their larger numbers to side step a seniority integration process they agreed to be bound by. They formed an unprincipled sham union and called it USAPA, not based on common goals and principles, but based on the desire of one pilot group to mug another.
 

Turtle21

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There are plenty of us looking in from the outside and we understand the East.

The East didn't get what they wanted and they used their larger numbers to side step a seniority integration process they agreed to be bound by. They formed an unprincipled sham union and called it USAPA, not based on common goals and principles, but based on the desire of one pilot group to mug another.
There are no principles contained in the USAPA C&BL that are opposed to any principles of the ALPA C&BL when it was formed so many decades ago (something that ALPA cannot claim).
 

Flybywire44

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Thanks guys, this was a good ride. I hope everything works out for everyone. Either way you'll all be riding a huge retirement wave soon so cheer up.

"Landfall" was a reference implying that the west had arrived at its destination or its goal of the Nic award.

ALPA binded to the Nic Award, we'll see what our fine court system decides. The ball will be in play for awhile.

Dr. Rumack, you definitely won't see me in court. I have better places to be!
 
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