• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

USAPA - Gutting the west contract

Bringupthebird

Grumpy? Who-Me?
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Posts
2,182
Total Time
16120
USAPA is in the process of preparing for a membership vote on whether or not to modify a provision in the west contract that allows pilots age 58 and older to receive captains pay, but remain at the top of the F/O scale and not be trained as captains. They propose to give into company demands that the age be moved to 63.

USAPA heartily endorses this vote as they see it as preventing co-pilots from upgrading.

USAPA fails to see the leverage in retaining the current contract language, and instead prefers to try and curry favor with management by giving away parts of the AWA contract. There are many who gleefully see this as their opportunity to personally screw the west with their vote. Before you do, think about this:

1. Why should USAPA give away what they didn't earn, in exchange for nothing?

2. Would allowing some F/O's who are in this age bracket to remain where they are enhance the upgrade opportunities for younger pilots?

3. Will those who plan to enjoy their own person victory at the expense of the west, ever need the unity with those same pilots to accomplish greater goals in the future?

4. And if those older F/O's desperately want to go from prime lineholders making captain's pay, to reserve captains with crummy lines, couldn't this bargain be struck so that something of value could come of it?

Suppose the west had won the representation election and proceeded to make wholesale concessions to only the east contract, just to prove who was really in charge. Would that yield the respect that was intended, or just make the current fight that much more bitter?

I encourage those USAPA members voting for this provision in the next few weeks to look beyond the chance to screw the west and sieze the chance to do what is right and vote NO on this question
 
Last edited:

JudgeSmails218

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
108
Total Time
Enough
I'm not sure what the issue is here. It still applies to those who theoretically have 2 years left. Why would the company want to pay captain pay for an fo for 7 years? Not intended to be flame, just wondering why they would do that.
 

Lampshade

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Posts
485
Total Time
8000
Why would you want to give up anything with out receiving something in return? If the company wants it so bad they should propose it in the new contract which is way over due. No more concessions!
 

becket

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Posts
722
Total Time
12000
Why would you want to give up anything with out receiving something in return? If the company wants it so bad they should propose it in the new contract which is way over due. No more concessions!


Because USAPA is owned and operated by a group of inbred wanna be thugs...

USAPA is a pointless, do nothing, impotent group of angry FOs from the East coast.

Fake unionism at it's best.
 

Lampshade

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Posts
485
Total Time
8000
Just when we thought unions couldn't possibly do any more harm, USAPA comes along and actually bests ALPA at deificating on the there own pilots. Well done USAPA, well done.
 

cactusboy53

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Posts
542
Total Time
16K+
You're kidding, right? Surely USAPA members in the East wouldn't SCREW the AWA pilot group with a vote that has NOTHING TO DO WITH LOA 93 (and further ,get NOTHING for the exchange!!!)?????

Any bets??
 

Flybywire44

Flies With The Hat On
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Posts
991
Total Time
7k
:) The East will all retire in five years and then you guys can do with USAPA what you want. In the mean time, the west is along for the ride.
 

cactusboy53

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Posts
542
Total Time
16K+
:) The East will all retire in five years and then you guys can do with USAPA what you want. In the mean time, the west is along for the ride.

Whatever. I'll tell you what. Judge Wake and any other legal officials involved will tell us both how things are going to be. That coupled with the next merge will really throw USAP's a curve. In the mean time the West pilots THAT HAD A JOB BEFORE AWA HOLDINGS ACQUIRED US AIR continue to be FURLOUGHED OUT OF SENIORITY ORDER ("Third Lister's" notified of furlough, but still working??......). USAP's have attempted a weak objection that proceeds to through the "channels". My union "speaks" for me.....
 

regionaltard

seat lock
Joined
May 22, 2005
Posts
951
Total Time
90°
I encourage those USAPA members voting for this provision in the next few weeks to look beyond the chance to screw the west and sieze the chance to do what is right and vote NO on this question

Sir, step away from the crack pipe. USAPA exists solely to screw the West.
 

eaglesview

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2008
Posts
1,350
Total Time
13,000
Just when we thought unions couldn't possibly do any more harm, USAPA comes along and actually bests ALPA at deificating on the there own pilots. Well done USAPA, well done.

Interesting choice of words considering the "alleged" events of last summer.
 

michael707767

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Posts
1,640
Total Time
13,500
No doubt USAPA is a horrible union. But, the intent of the age 58 rule was never to give a guy 7 years of captain pay without having to upgrade. With two years left it becomes almost as cheap to pay a guy captain wages instead of training him. But that is not the case with 7 years left. I think this rule should be changed. If you want captain rates for your last 7 years, upgrade.
 

outtahere

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Posts
641
Total Time
6200
Granted, but why should any union give away anything for free. Has the company ever gave the pilot group, any pilot group, anything for free? Sure change the rule, but get something for it in return.
 

cactusboy53

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Posts
542
Total Time
16K+
Granted, but why should any union give away anything for free. Has the company ever gave the pilot group, any pilot group, anything for free? Sure change the rule, but get something for it in return.

Outta is spot on. The company seeks this as an opportunity to either make the 58+ crowd upgrade or take lower pay. It costs the company $$ for the continued program. They are attempting to get this overturned for free, once again pitting the East against the West.

Question: Can USAP's do the smart thing and NEGOTIATE this away for something valuable for the ENTIRE pilot group??
 

Flybywire44

Flies With The Hat On
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Posts
991
Total Time
7k
Whatever. I'll tell you what. Judge Wake and any other legal officials involved will tell us both how things are going to be. That coupled with the next merge will really throw USAP's a curve. In the mean time the West pilots THAT HAD A JOB BEFORE AWA HOLDINGS ACQUIRED US AIR continue to be FURLOUGHED OUT OF SENIORITY ORDER ("Third Lister's" notified of furlough, but still working??......). USAP's have attempted a weak objection that proceeds to through the "channels". My union "speaks" for me.....

USAPA need only hold out 5 more years and then both parties win.
 

LearLove

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
4,451
Total Time
12000+
what is the DOH of the most senior west guy currently furloughed (on the street, not with a letter)?

thanks
 

BeCareful!

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Posts
809
Total Time
10,000
To all west guys,

You certainly have my NO VOTE on this. And I will be speaking to my reps and the NAC this week about it. If the company wants reliefe on what it has negotiated, then they better be prepared to start treating us more professionally at the table. Screw this MESA GRANDE mentality this management has, and screw their desire to get out of what they negotiated.
 

outtahere

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Posts
641
Total Time
6200
You know this one issue might actually get you guys to work together and all pull in the same direction. Then again, if it goes badly it could be the straw that breaks the camels back.
 

Bringupthebird

Grumpy? Who-Me?
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Posts
2,182
Total Time
16120
You know this one issue might actually get you guys to work together and all pull in the same direction. Then again, if it goes badly it could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Unfortunately USAPA is on the company's side pulling for the change. For a union that is "built from the pilot up" they sure spend precious little energy actually polling the pilots as to what their direction should be.
 
Top