USAirways Pilots: Read This.

[Bringupthebird]

Underfly-
What do you dispute about Luchese's analysis of facts? USAPA likes to dredge up the east's negotiating stance, but that's ancient history.

The facts are that the Nic list is not career-ending for any east pilot, unlike what Cleary wants you to believe.

 

[Redmeat]

Leonidas Update for Monday, August 3rd
Posted by JK_Admin on August 03 2009
Good Afternoon Fellow US Airways pilots:

Extended News
Good Afternoon Fellow US Airways pilots:

We took a week off from updating and you will notice here that this update is short. The reason is simple - there is not much to talk about. Judge Wake entered into the record his comprehensive injunction against USAPA. We also filed an application for attorney's fees totaling $1.8 Million, to be paid by USAPA. Finally, USAPA has begun their futile attempt to get three appellate court justices to agree with the "legal brilliance" of Lee Seham that apparently was not understood by one of the most respected and experienced Federal District Court judges.

We all know where this is headed, East and West alike. We both comprise the two bottom rungs of the industry ladder in pay and scheduling, but the real issue is beyond those two metrics - the real issue is our collective exposure to management in light of the sweeping changes that are about to take place in our industry. Leonidas would like to suggest to all US Airways pilots that we would all be better off if we stopped fighting yesterday's battles. Although the West was subjected to several barrages of the East's "win at all costs" tactics, the West has defeated every salvo lobbed our way: from ALPA National's all out attempted placation of the East, to the RICO suit, to the Section 29s and finally, the attempted destruction of West careers via DOH.

It's over. The appeals process will offer USAPA about a zero percent chance of success as the trial record is so thorough and the law is clearly not what Lee Seham imagines it to be. In short, there is no longer any reason for West angst when the acronym "USAPA" is uttered. The past is the past and it is incumbent on every West pilot to realize that the path to a better future is paved by East-West cooperation.

To the East, all we have to say is that you would be much better off if you stopped making the West your enemy. The West is not responsible for anything that troubles you; those battles should have been fought when you had the chance. Your attempt to substitute the West as the responsible party has cost each East pilot a tremendous amount of money - $100,000 and counting for the Group II captain seat. Jetblue A320 captains are making more than our A330 captains. It is imperative for every East pilot to realize that under the current leadership and current legal counsel, USAPA is getting trounced in court. The Plaintiff's Application for Attorney's Fees is direct proof that the liabilities are moving beyond injunctive relief and into the world of monetary liabilities. A trial for the damages incurred by the six plaintiffs will take place in the late Winter and if that results in a verdict for the plaintiffs, then every member of the West class will be entitled to sue for their individual damages. Think for a moment what those damages would be for just the 145 furloughees (three of the original six plaintiffs are currently furloughed and their trial will have already occurred). The East pilots are USAPA, and the union's only revenue source is its pilots.

Do not misconstrue what we write as threats. These are facts and this is the reality that your current leadership doesn't want you to hear. Addington is not going away. The West didn't ask for this war, but we have no choice at this point other than to finish it. In the meantime, losses will continue to mount on both sides of the Mississippi.

In light of this reality, let us consider what could be accomplished if we start working as a unified labor group. First, we have a union. Talk of going back to the NMB to replace that which we already have is duplicative, if not obfuscatory. A union is its members. By law, the members control the direction of their union and the reason should be obvious: it would be nonsensical for the law to require a change in collective bargaining agents just to effect changes in union leadership. The proper way to effect change within a union is for every employee to be a member in good standing and vote. The LMRDA (also known as the Landrum-Griffin Act) is the Bill of Rights for every union member and this is what guarantees we US Airways pilots the power to effect change right here, and right now.

Second, in the labor context the largest problem we have as a profession is the tendency for pilots to punt the difficult decisions. This is odd considering that our jobs require that we do the opposite when we are at the controls of an airplane. Rather than launch into a discussion of all of the events and choices made locally and nationally which brought us to this juncture, we can sum up what got us here this way: (i) over 50% of our passenger flying at US Airways is done by contract carriers; (ii) pensions at every legacy carrier save AMR are gone; (iii) every legacy airline pilot is working for 50% less than a decade ago, when adjusted for the cost of living; and (iv) major airline pilots are now fighting over the scraps instead of analyzing what got us here, correcting those mistakes and moving ahead. If we look at every one of those sub-points, the common link among each of them is either a decision to put the tough choice off until later, or a decision to deal with the consequences later on. "If we just get passed THIS situation, then we can do X, Y, and Z tomorrow and get them then." Unfortunately, this refrain is all too familiar for just about every major airline pilot.

Our current situation is no different. The ONLY question for every US Airways pilot is simply this, "What can be done TODAY to improve our collective situation?" The answer is clear: use what we have now to effect change. We have a bargaining unit in place; we don't need to throw it out just because of the leadership. Talk of trading the union in for another one is exactly the type of thinking which got pilots into this deep hole, and the hole we refer to is not just the East-West seniority dispute but the significant dilution of pay, benefits and job security for all major airline pilots. We have all that we will ever need in order to use our collective bargaining powers to the fullest extent against management. Pretending that we are doing something productive by concluding that the current CBA is unfixable and that the only path to realizing gains for all US Airways pilots is yet another change of signs on the union's office door is exactly what we should not be doing. Regardless of who the bargaining agent is, East and West need to work together. Let's tackle that first before we think about anything else.

Before we finish this update, we'd like to comment briefly on the appeals process. The federal court website has a fantastic synposis and you can access it here: http://www.uscourts.gov/understand03/content_6_5.html
One sentence from that webpage pretty much summarizes the entire process, "An appellant must show that the trial court made a legal error that affected the decision of the case." For anyone who has followed this case, it is clear that Lee Seham has an enormous challenge ahead of him as allegations that Judge Wake erred are little more than grasping for straws. To use a football analogy, what's really happening here is that the other side is asking for a review of the play when everyone watching the game plainly saw the receiver come down with both feet well within bounds and he had complete control of the ball. If USAPA still wants to challenge the referee's call with a video review, then they are entitled to do so. We in the West wait with total confidence that the decision will stand. This is over folks. Now is the time to just move forward - together.

Have a great week.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

This reads like the propaganda the Japanese were sending over the airwaves in the Pacific conflict during WWII.

Completely transparent unless you're prepubescent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Rose

 

[B-atch]

My thoughts exactly!! Give it a rest guys.....NO ONE CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NCFlyer]

Marcio Lucchese = Scumbag Opportunistic Thief.

What a bunch of unmitigated arrogance. He was hired in 2003 but think he deserves to be senior to someone hired in 1987......That is correct 16 YEARS before him. FlyUnder

What a bunch of unmitigated arrogance. Evidently you think that someone who had a job at the time of the merger show be kind enough and willing to give that job to a FURLOUGHED pilot from another carrier.

It has been argued over and over ad nausea, it's called relative seniority. If you were a senior C/A you remained a senior C/A. If you were a junior F/O, you remained a junior F/O. Age & DOH is/was no part of the equation.

I've asked this over and over again. Let's say hypothetically:

Carrier ABC & XYZ plan to merge.
Carrier ABC has pilots on furlough with DOH back to 1995.
Carrier XYZ is an upstart from 2000, therefore no one has a DOH prior to 2000.

Is every pilot from XYZ obligated to give up their job for every furloughed pilot from ABC?
Should pilots from XYZ be stapled based on DOH with seat protections?
Should pilots from both seniority lists be slotted in together based on relative seniority?

 

[T2Bus]

MCDU is still burning the Tacos.....

 

[T2Bus]

23 years working at Mesa Grande undercutting all the legacy carriers with wages so low and no pension = pathetic.

Seems like T2bus had some problems not getting hired by a real Airline. Looks like Mesa Grande was the best you could do. I bet you were part of the Ansett generation. You are a piece of work. 23 years with your Mesa Grande. Just sad.

Now , up to the year 2002 USAIR was great. Great pay, great pension great everything. Now USAIR is just another Mesa Grande with 56 year old pilots trapped in a nightmare called Mesa Grande.

Good night

M

....actually, I turned down a job offer from "your" airline of pride to go to Mesa Grande. Best thing I ever did. If I went with your airline of "pride", I would be a member of the Angry F/O Club. Now that's pathetic.....

 

[C Festerpuss]

Marccio Lucchese says:
For many First Officers, “the plan” worked well. Unfortunately we missed a great window of opportunity to negotiate a good contract when the Company was making good money. “The Plan,” for most of us, will cost thousands of dollars; for some it will be very cost effective. But again, this is only my theory.

The fact is that AAA Pilots during this last decade experienced loss after loss. From wages to pension, from work rules to domicile closings. I just would like to ask you, who was responsible for these? The America West pilots?


America West pilots were not responsible. East pilots took these cuts and the furloughs and losses. The problem now is that the cuts will come from the West and after paying for East management mistakes the East pilots will pay for West cuts.
US Airways no longer reports separate financial data. When then did USAPA and East pilots were well aware of where the money was being made. Last summer when the furloughs were announced, 175 West and 125 East, Doug Parker was savaged by West pilots for this. He replied that the cuts came this way because that was what the financial analysis indicated needed to be done. To bring this further home the most recent round of furloughs of US Airways employees works out to almost all West and very little East furloughs. 400 Flight attendants 300 West and 100 East, and it is my understanding that the 100 East are all voluntary. There have been an additional 600 job cuts for rampers and other line personnel and those are almost all West.


“Philadelphia's largest airline will close its US Airways Club in Las Vegas and a ticket office in Phoenix, reduce staff at its Phoenix airline club, shrink staff at an operations control center in Pittsburgh, and shift ramp service work to outside contractors at nine airports in the West and Midwest.

By Linda Loyd
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
July 14, 2009
"Today's economy demands we continue to look for ways to control costs," chief operating office Robert Isom said in a memo to employees.
Isom said the fall-off in business travel and "a significant decline" in revenue necessitated the staff reductions, effective Sept. 14.
The Tempe, Ariz.-based company had hoped that attrition - retirements and voluntary departures - would reduce staffing, as it has in the past.
"In today's economy, however, this is no longer the case with attrition hovering in the low single digits," Isom said. "So, we find ourselves with more employees than our operation requires."


[FONT=&quot]The fact is East pilots have already paid and don’t want to pay again for West management errors[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Of the almost 1000 job cuts being considered, almost 88% were out West. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The question is “Why should East pilots pay for that?” [/FONT]

 

[T2Bus]

For REDMEAT.....

You are missing the point. The point is we want a contract now! The battle over the NIC is over. The list is the list.....it's over, let's move on for a new contract.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The east will only be happy when it's 1992 again.

 

[HA25]

Hey Flyunder....Just what seniority was that 16 year pilot bidding at the time of the merger????????? 16 years at USAir got him botton reserve, just about the same position as Marcio............What's that I hear Crickets? I hate to confuse you with the facts though....Go back to your hate filled nonsensical rants.

NOTE TO THE "MODERATORS"

I get week off for adding the word SCAB to the word FORD... Yet you let this member directly call another pilot a "Scumbag Opportunistic Thief". This is the second time you have allowed him so refer to a west pilot of the whole west pilot group as "Scumbags".....WTF This latest statment borders on defamation.

Were it up to me, every one using any kind of insult on this forum would get a week off.... but the admin has decided that the only words he will not tolerate are scab and the major cuss words... I'd take it up with him if you want to see that change.

 

[m80drvr]

Were it up to me, every one using any kind of insult on this forum would get a week off.... but the admin has decided that the only words he will not tolerate are scab and the major cuss words... I'd take it up with him if you want to see that change.

Guess I'll have to pass this on the Marccio.....I wonder how the brain trust Mod's will handle a slander suit?

 

[get2flyin]

I think Marcio has thicker skin that that.

 

[HA25]

Far as I'm concerned, if anyone insults anyone else (ad hominem), report their post and I will delete it and possible if the person is a repeat offender warn them with a citation but the rules here are quite lax in terms of firm moderation on cordiality.. I have tried to ask for them to be tightened up but met with a lot of resistance, and not just from members.

 

[Metrojet]

From the inside.....

LAS VEGAS DOMICILE UPDATE
August 3, 2009

Fellow Pilots,
This update is probably more directed to our East pilots than to our West pilots. I will give you a few examples of seniority using the US Jan/08 list and the NIC. These are not speculations or assumptions, they are only the absolutely factual numbers that can be verified by anyone. I encourage you to run the numbers to look at your personal situation; you may be surprised with the truth. The list that I used to find Jan/08 positions is available at Wings, on our Flight Ops page. I requested that USAPA publish the updated Nicolau list on the Web site; hopefully they will make it available to you.

To get a clear picture of seniority, one must take a look where he/she stands percentage wise on a pre-merger list and compare where he/she stands on a combined list. The most senior group stands in the top 1% and the most junior in the bottom 99%.

Our discrepancy is a result of a pre-merger 99% group with 18 years on the list at US and a 99% group with 6 months at HP. That’s one of the reasons that DOH was erased right from the beginning as a seniority integration method during arbitration.

I also would like to mention that DAL/NWA seniority integration is quite similar to our arbitration. It came to me as no surprise that, even though the DAL/NWA arbitration was widely available to the airline community, USAPA never mentioned it in its communication to our pilots. Coincidence?

NOTE: Can't get the table to display properly

To understand the table above, look at your seniority number on the left. That’s someone’s seniority number at AWA or AAA. Move to the right for your respective airline to verify where you stand today, and compare where you will stand upon implementation of the NIC. Interpolate as necessary to adjust for your number.

As you can see, there are winners and losers on both sides of the list. Very senior AWA pilots lose 8% seniority; very junior AAA pilots lose 6% seniority. For pilots in the middle of both lists, the gain/loss is almost irrelevant. The difference in seniority for the junior AAA pilots is certainly due to the fact that AAA had 1800 pilots on furlough and AWA didn’t have any. The difference in seniority for the AWA senior pilots is due to NIC having more than 500 AAA pilots on the top of the list.

On the one hand, most East pilots that I checked stay within 3 to 5% from their position when the NIC is implemented; on the other hand, if you implement the DOH, a large number of East pilots jump between 20 and 30%!!!!

I heard the “our attrition argument” many times, but if you really want to use statistics, probabilities and history, you will find that US Airways' reduction in size (furlough) was much greater than attrition due to retirement.

In my opinion, USAPA's “founding fathers” never believed that they could get out of the Nic. It is quite clear that Nicolau did not make any procedural errors in his decision. If he did, I am sure that AAA pilots would be successful in pursuing a legal venue to overturn his decision. What they knew is that they could delay its implementation for a good few years. At a time that US Airways was experiencing a number of upgrade opportunities, it appears to be a good plan to secure as many Captain slots as possible before the implementation. The problem is that they could never admit to that, and they never will, for obvious reasons. For many First Officers, “the plan” worked well. Unfortunately we missed a great window of opportunity to negotiate a good contract when the Company was making good money. “The Plan,” for most of us, will cost thousands of dollars; for some it will be very cost effective. But again, this is only my theory.

The fact is that AAA Pilots during this last decade experienced loss after loss. From wages to pension, from work rules to domicile closings. I just would like to ask you, who was responsible for these? The America West pilots?
Let’s take a look again at some facts, available from the USAPA Web site.

Transition Agreement AWA/AAA Merger LOA 96

Signed by William Pollock, Dan Scola, Doug Mowery, Kim Snider, among others.

July 2002 Reinstruction Agreement

Signed by Cris Beebe, Kelly Ison, Philip Carey, Jeff Tokash, Donn Butkovic, among others.
LOA 93 Transformation Plan
Signed by William Pollock, Doug Mowery, Theodore Schott, John Greehall, Don Hollerbach, James Jewell, among others.
LOA 92 PSA Large jets

Signed by the same as LOA 93.
LOA 85 Pilots, Defined Contribution Plan

Signed by William Pollock, Kelly Ison, Donn Butkovik, Philip Carey, Gerry McGuckin, Jeff Tokash, among others.
These are just a few examples of past agreements. All the names that you see above are AAA Pilots, not AWA Pilots or ALPA National. All of these agreements that terminated your pension, reduced our wages and changed your work rules are signed by AAA Pilots. Pilots that in some way or another were put in their positions by AAA Pilots.

I hope that these facts will help you understand the West pilots' positions and actions towards USAPA. As cloudy as it looks, most of us are looking forward to the day that we will be able to work in a friendly and rewarding environment.

Marcio Lucchese
LAS Chairman

T2 -

Simple question for the West - if a merger took place today with United or anyone else - were should the West furloughed pilots (including 3 of the Addington plantiffs) be placed on the combined list:

1. DOH?
2. Slotted? with fences?
3. At the bottom behind all "active pilots"?

And please answer truthfully, and if you think about your answer for a few minutes before typing - you should be able to see why the East will never vote for a CBA which includes Nic.

Respectfully,
Metrojet

 

[Lampshade]

Slotted order per the nic list or by final and binding arbitration.

 

[Carl S.]

Use the court ordered Nic. list and some form of a list from UAL. Neg.,Mediate and finally arbitrate if we can not get a solution. The old AWA pilots that are on the street will fall where the lists are combined and return to flying when the vacancies become available. The East pilots that did not have a job when AAA/AWA merged win again, as those without jobs work and those that brought jobs to the table are on the street.

 

[TWA Dude]

Like Lampshade said: Slotted order per the Nic list or by final and binding arbitration.

... you should be able to see why the East will never vote for a CBA which includes Nic.

Spite is such a wonder motivator.

 

[MK82Man]

As an “out of seniority AWA furlough” who had a job at the time of the merger, I can tell you that it does not sit well at all that I lost my job to a guy who was furloughed at the time of the merger. I’ve said all along, that we, AWA, supported bringing back every East Furlough prior to new hires, but now some of those guys are working and have been for 10 months while me and my West Brothers are on the street. The East is taking advantage of the West and it will in fact come back to haunt them. Nic is the list per the Court’s ruling and when the appeal process is over, the 175 West Furloughees will litigate for damages. The East has opinions and Judge Wake has the law, we’ll see who prevails. I know who has lost – every pilot at US Airways (old or new). The USAPA experiment is a disaster of epic proportions and those who can’t see it are in denial. The East continues to make short term gains on the backs of their fellow West pilots … it is really, really, sad. If the East wanted it to change it would, but they really don’t. They want to take advantage of the 1700 AWA pilots and gain whatever they can at our expense. They have the numbers to turn the tide and end this nightmare … we’ll see.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Behind the active pilots but with a multi-million dollar (each) award from the principals of USAPA.

 

[T2Bus]

T2 -

Simple question for the West - if a merger took place today with United or anyone else - were should the West furloughed pilots (including 3 of the Addington plantiffs) be placed on the combined list:

1. DOH?
2. Slotted? with fences?
3. At the bottom behind all "active pilots"?

And please answer truthfully, and if you think about your answer for a few minutes before typing - you should be able to see why the East will never vote for a CBA which includes Nic.

Respectfully,
Metrojet

Metrojet,

I have a question for you. Do you like the contract that you are working under?

The Nic is the list, by court order.

It's time to make some money for our families and prepare for retirement.

Sincerely,

T2Bus