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USAirways Pilots: Read This.
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From the inside.....
LAS VEGAS DOMICILE UPDATE
August 3, 2009
Fellow Pilots,
This update is probably more directed to our East pilots than to our West pilots. I will give you a few examples of seniority using the US Jan/08 list and the NIC. These are not speculations or assumptions, they are only the absolutely factual numbers that can be verified by anyone. I encourage you to run the numbers to look at your personal situation; you may be surprised with the truth. The list that I used to find Jan/08 positions is available at Wings, on our Flight Ops page. I requested that USAPA publish the updated Nicolau list on the Web site; hopefully they will make it available to you.
To get a clear picture of seniority, one must take a look where he/she stands percentage wise on a pre-merger list and compare where he/she stands on a combined list. The most senior group stands in the top 1% and the most junior in the bottom 99%.
Our discrepancy is a result of a pre-merger 99% group with 18 years on the list at US and a 99% group with 6 months at HP. That’s one of the reasons that DOH was erased right from the beginning as a seniority integration method during arbitration.
I also would like to mention that DAL/NWA seniority integration is quite similar to our arbitration. It came to me as no surprise that, even though the DAL/NWA arbitration was widely available to the airline community, USAPA never mentioned it in its communication to our pilots. Coincidence?
NOTE: Can't get the table to display properly
To understand the table above, look at your seniority number on the left. That’s someone’s seniority number at AWA or AAA. Move to the right for your respective airline to verify where you stand today, and compare where you will stand upon implementation of the NIC. Interpolate as necessary to adjust for your number.
As you can see, there are winners and losers on both sides of the list. Very senior AWA pilots lose 8% seniority; very junior AAA pilots lose 6% seniority. For pilots in the middle of both lists, the gain/loss is almost irrelevant. The difference in seniority for the junior AAA pilots is certainly due to the fact that AAA had 1800 pilots on furlough and AWA didn’t have any. The difference in seniority for the AWA senior pilots is due to NIC having more than 500 AAA pilots on the top of the list.
On the one hand, most East pilots that I checked stay within 3 to 5% from their position when the NIC is implemented; on the other hand, if you implement the DOH, a large number of East pilots jump between 20 and 30%!!!!
I heard the “our attrition argument” many times, but if you really want to use statistics, probabilities and history, you will find that US Airways' reduction in size (furlough) was much greater than attrition due to retirement.
In my opinion, USAPA's “founding fathers” never believed that they could get out of the Nic. It is quite clear that Nicolau did not make any procedural errors in his decision. If he did, I am sure that AAA pilots would be successful in pursuing a legal venue to overturn his decision. What they knew is that they could delay its implementation for a good few years. At a time that US Airways was experiencing a number of upgrade opportunities, it appears to be a good plan to secure as many Captain slots as possible before the implementation. The problem is that they could never admit to that, and they never will, for obvious reasons. For many First Officers, “the plan” worked well. Unfortunately we missed a great window of opportunity to negotiate a good contract when the Company was making good money. “The Plan,” for most of us, will cost thousands of dollars; for some it will be very cost effective. But again, this is only my theory.
The fact is that AAA Pilots during this last decade experienced loss after loss. From wages to pension, from work rules to domicile closings. I just would like to ask you, who was responsible for these? The America West pilots?
Let’s take a look again at some facts, available from the USAPA Web site.
Transition Agreement AWA/AAA Merger LOA 96
Signed by William Pollock, Dan Scola, Doug Mowery, Kim Snider, among others.
July 2002 Reinstruction Agreement
Signed by Cris Beebe, Kelly Ison, Philip Carey, Jeff Tokash, Donn Butkovic, among others.
LOA 93 Transformation Plan
Signed by William Pollock, Doug Mowery, Theodore Schott, John Greehall, Don Hollerbach, James Jewell, among others.
LOA 92 PSA Large jets
Signed by the same as LOA 93.
LOA 85 Pilots, Defined Contribution Plan
Signed by William Pollock, Kelly Ison, Donn Butkovik, Philip Carey, Gerry McGuckin, Jeff Tokash, among others.
These are just a few examples of past agreements. All the names that you see above are AAA Pilots, not AWA Pilots or ALPA National. All of these agreements that terminated your pension, reduced our wages and changed your work rules are signed by AAA Pilots. Pilots that in some way or another were put in their positions by AAA Pilots.
I hope that these facts will help you understand the West pilots' positions and actions towards USAPA. As cloudy as it looks, most of us are looking forward to the day that we will be able to work in a friendly and rewarding environment.
Marcio Lucchese
LAS Chairman
LAS VEGAS DOMICILE UPDATE
August 3, 2009
Fellow Pilots,
This update is probably more directed to our East pilots than to our West pilots. I will give you a few examples of seniority using the US Jan/08 list and the NIC. These are not speculations or assumptions, they are only the absolutely factual numbers that can be verified by anyone. I encourage you to run the numbers to look at your personal situation; you may be surprised with the truth. The list that I used to find Jan/08 positions is available at Wings, on our Flight Ops page. I requested that USAPA publish the updated Nicolau list on the Web site; hopefully they will make it available to you.
To get a clear picture of seniority, one must take a look where he/she stands percentage wise on a pre-merger list and compare where he/she stands on a combined list. The most senior group stands in the top 1% and the most junior in the bottom 99%.
Our discrepancy is a result of a pre-merger 99% group with 18 years on the list at US and a 99% group with 6 months at HP. That’s one of the reasons that DOH was erased right from the beginning as a seniority integration method during arbitration.
I also would like to mention that DAL/NWA seniority integration is quite similar to our arbitration. It came to me as no surprise that, even though the DAL/NWA arbitration was widely available to the airline community, USAPA never mentioned it in its communication to our pilots. Coincidence?
NOTE: Can't get the table to display properly
To understand the table above, look at your seniority number on the left. That’s someone’s seniority number at AWA or AAA. Move to the right for your respective airline to verify where you stand today, and compare where you will stand upon implementation of the NIC. Interpolate as necessary to adjust for your number.
As you can see, there are winners and losers on both sides of the list. Very senior AWA pilots lose 8% seniority; very junior AAA pilots lose 6% seniority. For pilots in the middle of both lists, the gain/loss is almost irrelevant. The difference in seniority for the junior AAA pilots is certainly due to the fact that AAA had 1800 pilots on furlough and AWA didn’t have any. The difference in seniority for the AWA senior pilots is due to NIC having more than 500 AAA pilots on the top of the list.
On the one hand, most East pilots that I checked stay within 3 to 5% from their position when the NIC is implemented; on the other hand, if you implement the DOH, a large number of East pilots jump between 20 and 30%!!!!
I heard the “our attrition argument” many times, but if you really want to use statistics, probabilities and history, you will find that US Airways' reduction in size (furlough) was much greater than attrition due to retirement.
In my opinion, USAPA's “founding fathers” never believed that they could get out of the Nic. It is quite clear that Nicolau did not make any procedural errors in his decision. If he did, I am sure that AAA pilots would be successful in pursuing a legal venue to overturn his decision. What they knew is that they could delay its implementation for a good few years. At a time that US Airways was experiencing a number of upgrade opportunities, it appears to be a good plan to secure as many Captain slots as possible before the implementation. The problem is that they could never admit to that, and they never will, for obvious reasons. For many First Officers, “the plan” worked well. Unfortunately we missed a great window of opportunity to negotiate a good contract when the Company was making good money. “The Plan,” for most of us, will cost thousands of dollars; for some it will be very cost effective. But again, this is only my theory.
The fact is that AAA Pilots during this last decade experienced loss after loss. From wages to pension, from work rules to domicile closings. I just would like to ask you, who was responsible for these? The America West pilots?
Let’s take a look again at some facts, available from the USAPA Web site.
Transition Agreement AWA/AAA Merger LOA 96
Signed by William Pollock, Dan Scola, Doug Mowery, Kim Snider, among others.
July 2002 Reinstruction Agreement
Signed by Cris Beebe, Kelly Ison, Philip Carey, Jeff Tokash, Donn Butkovic, among others.
LOA 93 Transformation Plan
Signed by William Pollock, Doug Mowery, Theodore Schott, John Greehall, Don Hollerbach, James Jewell, among others.
LOA 92 PSA Large jets
Signed by the same as LOA 93.
LOA 85 Pilots, Defined Contribution Plan
Signed by William Pollock, Kelly Ison, Donn Butkovik, Philip Carey, Gerry McGuckin, Jeff Tokash, among others.
These are just a few examples of past agreements. All the names that you see above are AAA Pilots, not AWA Pilots or ALPA National. All of these agreements that terminated your pension, reduced our wages and changed your work rules are signed by AAA Pilots. Pilots that in some way or another were put in their positions by AAA Pilots.
I hope that these facts will help you understand the West pilots' positions and actions towards USAPA. As cloudy as it looks, most of us are looking forward to the day that we will be able to work in a friendly and rewarding environment.
Marcio Lucchese
LAS Chairman
Well MCDU....if you don't work at the airline...then WHY are you here? I work for this company as a line Captain (...in the left seat the entire time) for the past 23 years and lost positions on the Nic award. People like you have no idea what they are talking about other than stir the pot with BS. State only the facts.....
Marcio Lucchese = Scumbag Opportunistic Thief.
What a bunch of unmitigated arogance. He was hired in 2003 but think he deserves to be senior to someone hired in 1987......That is correct 16 YEARS before him.
This is the very crux of the reason why the SOTs and US Airways pilots will never be able to safely occupy the same cockpit.
The best part is the SOTs actually think that this is going to be over soon. I love it.
FlyUnder
MCDU
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Posts
- 1,146
23 years working at Mesa Grande undercutting all the legacy carriers with wages so low and no pension = pathetic.
Seems like T2bus had some problems not getting hired by a real Airline. Looks like Mesa Grande was the best you could do. I bet you were part of the Ansett generation. You are a piece of work. 23 years with your Mesa Grande. Just sad.
Now , up to the year 2002 USAIR was great. Great pay, great pension great everything. Now USAIR is just another Mesa Grande with 56 year old pilots trapped in a nightmare called Mesa Grande.
Good night
M
bigtexpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 83
You talk like this is something the west asked for. It all boils down to what has been said time and time again. Your mec agreed to binding arbitration. Things would have been different if they had not demanded doh. It's time for all migs to look forward and stop living in the past. We need to be working toward better pay and work rules.
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Posts
- 1,926
Well that's the first truth you've written. Remember you wrote it right here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465
Of course you also wrote the following, claiming to be a UAL pilot right here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345
Now run along and tell the mods you little pansie!
I'm sure your east coast man love will be home soon, and he'll want some loving, MCDoosh style!
m80drvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 429
Hey Flyunder....Just what seniority was that 16 year pilot bidding at the time of the merger????????? 16 years at USAir got him botton reserve, just about the same position as Marcio............What's that I hear Crickets? I hate to confuse you with the facts though....Go back to your hate filled nonsensical rants.
NOTE TO THE "MODERATORS"
I get week off for adding the word SCAB to the word FORD... Yet you let this member directly call another pilot a "Scumbag Opportunistic Thief". This is the second time you have allowed him so refer to a west pilot of the whole west pilot group as "Scumbags".....WTF This latest statment borders on defamation.
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Posts
- 1,926
At least these mods are better than the last bunch. way2broke and ta the moron were completely useless!
I'm sorry, but DOH was not ALPA merger policy when AWA bought AAA. Certainly you knew this, unless your MEC was so weak that it didn't inform you of that little fact.
Nevertheless, the time for making arguments over what is an appropriate integrated list has come and gone, the arbitrator that was AAA's number one choice handed down the integrated list, time to pony up like honorable adults and implement the Nicolau award as the final and binding list.
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