USAirways Pilots Offer 12% Pay Cut

[767-300ER]

Reuters
US Airways pilots offer to cut pay by 12.5 pct
Friday June 25, 5:10 pm ET

WASHINGTON, June 25 (Reuters) - Pilots at US Airways are offering to take a 12.5 percent pay cut and work more hours through 2008 to help meet fresh cost-cutting targets at the carrier as it struggles to stay viable, the pilots union said on Friday.
The proposal submitted to the company this week by the US Airways negotiating unit of the Air Line Pilots Association is the first significant offer by any union at the carrier, which is seeking to save $1.5 billion, including $800 million from labor.


The Arlington, Virginia-based airline emerged from bankruptcy protection last year and is again overhauling its business plan to counter low-cost competition, especially Southwest Airlines.

The pilots would cut their wages across the board and forego any raises. They would also boost their monthly work schedule from 85 to 90 hours.

"This is important. It involves real dollars and cents," said Jack Stephan, a spokesman for pilots at US Airways. "I'm sure there will be further discussions in other areas, but right now this is where we are."

US Airways is seeking $295 million in concessions from the pilots but Stephan was reluctant to put a dollar figure on the union's proposal since other issues must still be negotiated.

But the airline called the proposal a "very good step" toward reaching its goals.

"It's clear as a result of the pilots' willingness to sit down and talk that they share the same commitment for the survival of the company," said US Airways spokesman David Castelveter.

The airline's new chief executive, Bruce Lakefield, hopes to complete giveback agreements with labor groups in September.

In addition to pilots, the company is seeking $116 million in concessions from flight attendants, $263 million from mechanics and fleet service workers, and $122 million from reservation agents and passenger service and ticket counter employees.

 

[General Lee]

They are fighting for their lives over there, and bringing down the rest of the industry.

 

[250scp]

Ahhhh General,

The same thing might be said about DELTA sooner rather than later. Remember to have me remind you about pilot's bring down the rest of the industry when Dalpa signs off on a 30% paycut....

 

[328dude]

Once again, General Lee's wisdom consumes me................

Didn't realize Delta was in such great shape too. Your next my friend.

 

[sandman2122]

As the world turns......

Thanks General ,


I almost forgot that the world revolves around the Delta pilots .....

Please keep reminding us of that.....

 

[InclusiveScope]

They are fighting for their lives over there, and bringing down the rest of the industry.

This is what those of you who still live the good life don't understand. If I am fighting for my life, I don't give a darn about you and I don't give a darn about how it will affect others in the industry. Maybe this union should have had more of a safety net - national seniority list and minimum contract standards? Instead the have's just stuck their heads in the sand. Well guess what General, the have'nots don't really care about how our survival affects the have's.

 

[MetroSheriff]

They are fighting for their lives over there, and bringing down the rest of the industry.

[/]sarcasm on

I wonder where Delta pilots get their reputation?

[/]sarcasm off

General, I am with you on the support of the furloughs, I am with you on silencing the RJDC malcontents.

A remark like that, however, makes you sound incredibly arrogant. I know you are informed and aware of the terrble state of the industry. Those guys are inded fighting for their jobs. Given the uncertainty in our dyfunctional DAL family. I find it odd that you can be so obtuse.

 

[General Lee]

We're next--ok. We are the only ones being asked for cash at our airline, and even with a 30% pay cut, we will still be the highest paid, and we have slowed down this process to think it through--not just give it away. We have plans to get the creditors on board, which was smart--and they are starting to do that. We are doing this methodically, and we (the corporation) still have assets to sell if necessary. We have plenty of other employees (other than the pilots) to plunder first before we get anywhere near Chap 11.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

We're next--ok. We are the only ones being asked for cash at our airline, and even with a 30% pay cut, we will still be the highest paid, and we have slowed down this process to think it through--not just give it away. We have plans to get the creditors on board, which was smart--and they are starting to do that. We are doing this methodically, and we (the corporation) still have assets to sell if necessary. We have plenty of other employees (other than the pilots) to plunder first before we get anywhere near Chap 11.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
Don't plan on getting any from the ASA or CMR pilots. We have subsidized your pay long enough.

 

[General Lee]

Inclusivescope,


Is this guy wrong?

"And one might raise the question that if ASA and
Comair are profitable, why would they go into
bankruptcy," Ashcroft continued. "Profits at those
regionals and other wholly-owned subsidiaries are
completely notional. Delta is free to arrange those
contracts and books any way it wants, and can make
them look as profitable or unprofitable as it likes."
(Regional airline analyst Robert Ashcroft of UBS
Investment Research)


I am waiting for an answer.....You guys might be next---I don't know...??? Ask Gerry---not me.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

Inclusivescope,


Is this guy wrong?

"And one might raise the question that if ASA and
Comair are profitable, why would they go into
bankruptcy," Ashcroft continued. "Profits at those
regionals and other wholly-owned subsidiaries are
completely notional. Delta is free to arrange those
contracts and books any way it wants, and can make
them look as profitable or unprofitable as it likes."
(Regional airline analyst Robert Ashcroft of UBS
Investment Research)


I am waiting for an answer.....You guys might be next---I don't know...??? Ask Gerry---not me.

Bye Bye--General Lee

We won't give General, we are making money. Here you go AGAIN - have you read this yet?
http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2.../bts016_04.html

 

[MCDU]

Delta brought down the industry, when they let their management fly all those rjs by non delta pilots, forcing others to do the same. Delta union sold us all out when they brought a d-scale to the airline industry. They were the first to give up a strong scope clause most airlines had.

marty

 

[General Lee]

MCDU,


I think national ALPA $crewed that up by not thinking that RJs were good enough for mainline fleets. Delta pilots brought the industry pay average way up in 2000--and then things fell apart in 2001 after 9-11. The large RJ order erased all of our props--and brought in good revenue at the time.


Inclusivescope,

The reason you guys are profitable is because you fill a lot of your planes---but those planes used to be full 727s or 737s. All you are doing is providing a smaller replacement, when we could have larger planes on the same route bringing in more needed revenue. But, we parked all of the 727s, L1011s, and Md-11s---and other planes have had to be placed on those old routes as well. So, you guys now have planes that can't carry the same amount of people as advetised (due to the new weight system) on warm Summer days, and people don't prefer those planes anyway. Re-read my quote from the regional analyst---he has it right saying that Delta can manipulate the data anyway it wants to show profits. But, people will always prefer larger aircraft---and the LCCs are getting more and dumping the RJs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

MCDU,


I think national ALPA $crewed that up by not thinking that RJs were good enough for mainline fleets. Delta pilots brought the industry pay average way up in 2000--and then things fell apart in 2001 after 9-11. The large RJ order erased all of our props--and brought in good revenue at the time.


Inclusivescope,

The reason you guys are profitable is because you fill a lot of your planes---but those planes used to be full 727s or 737s. All you are doing is providing a smaller replacement, when we could have larger planes on the same route bringing in more needed revenue. But, we parked all of the 727s, L1011s, and Md-11s---and other planes have had to be placed on those old routes as well. So, you guys now have planes that can't carry the same amount of people as advetised (due to the new weight system) on warm Summer days, and people don't prefer those planes anyway. Re-read my quote from the regional analyst---he has it right saying that Delta can manipulate the data anyway it wants to show profits. But, people will always prefer larger aircraft---and the LCCs are getting more and dumping the RJs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Finally General, we can agree on something. ALPA did screw up big time - and now they are paying for their mistakes. As far as only making money because
"you fill a lot of your planes", I believe you need a little econ 101 lesson General. This industry has lost all pricing power. The best way to regain pricing power is to leave a few people behind. That will drive the price up (supply and demand in case you were sleeping during that part). This isn't a welfare program for big airplane drivers - it is a business. We need to drive demand up, not put in more seats and drive demand down. I hope you fly better than you understand economics.

 

[General Lee]

Inclusivescope,

Econ 101, huh? The only way to combat lower fares is to have more seats available on each plane to spread out the costs. A 50 seat RJ and low fares do not work well together. Sure, there is excess capacity out there---but there are also LCCs. They have driven the fares down---and it will be interesting to see if Independance can be profitable using mostly CRJ-200s. They will need to run those things 15 hours a day to have a chance at squeezing out some revenue---and with bad wx and constant ground delays in the NE---it will be a sight to see.

Airtran and Jetblue are growing---in our backyard. We need to offer flights that compete on a price and comfort level---or we will lose. To have a chance at making any money on those routes--we will need to inundate the market with our product---one that is pleasing to the pax. Song, which has been doing better and even has surprised Grinstein (he stated that at the end of that last article that was posted about Delta) has 199 seats--and using the lower fares of Jetblue--we can actually do well with that many seats. (even with the higher priced Delta pilots---imagine that!) Capacity will work its way downward naturally with the market---some other carrier will eventually bail out--and capacity will go to normal levels--eventually raising fares. Then the carrier with the most seats will really win. Econ 101.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flash 7]

I'm so happy I started investing in Real Estate 10 years ago.


I love my airline pilot hobby!!

 

[dlredline]

They are fighting for their lives over there, and bringing down the rest of the industry.

. . . an unbelievably arrogant statement from someone who obviously hasn't walked that mile. My compassion lies with those in the fight rather than those who criticize from afar.

Red

 

[General Lee]

Hey, if you read my quote again you can see that I know they are fighting for their lives---and at the same time the industry is going down with them. You can think it was a slam, but it wasn't. I was saying that most of our wages are going down with them. Read into that any way you want to--it is true.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[T45Flyer]

It took a while, but the generals colors finally have shown. "The Delta professionals" are back. Give me a break.

 

[dlredline]

Hey, if you read my quote again you can see that I know they are fighting for their lives---and at the same time the industry is going down with them. You can think it was a slam, but it wasn't. I was saying that most of our wages are going down with them. Read into that any way you want to--it is true.

Spoken like someone who's never been there. I read it, and even quoted it. Re-read it yourself, you state first they (USAirways pilots) are fighting for their lives, and they (USAirways pilots) are bringing down the rest of the industry. Pretty specific criticism. If that isn't a slam on a proud pilot group and their families trying to survive, I don't know what is. A bigger person would apologize rather than spin his words.

Remember, dude, "time wounds all heals", so I'd wait until the dust settles at Delta before commenting on the trials and tribulations of the U pilot group, because you know not of what you speak.

Red

 

[Dizel8]

Well, not that he needs it, I will still come the generals defense. I think you all are reading too much into what he said. As pilots takes concessions, it will move the target further down, because all management wants to do is to compete and in order to do that, they must lower cost. Pilots are the easiest target, one, since we make the most and second, because we are married to the seniority system.

UAIR, via MAA or MDA I cannot remember, has essentially set the bar for the E-170 and the 190. With this, I can only predict, that anything with less seats will see less pay. It may not happen tomorrow or the next day, but it will happen eventually. Just wait until GG brings his powerpoint presentation to Comair. You have already seen them play Comair against ASA, that will not change.

UAL, if they do not get the loan, will come asking the pilots again for a paycut and they will probably agree to something, heck, they may even give away the pension and that will be ugly. For all of us.

For the longest time it was SWA, then it was jetblue, it may end up being UAIR that gets blamed for the decrease in our wages. Only time will tell. Can I blame the UAIR pilots, heck no, they are indeed fighting for their livelyhood.

I envy the pay at DAL, although not the culture, I think anyone flying a 777 should make 300K+ if not more, we all want to be rich and retire early. As the top goes down, the bottom gets lower.

So cut the Gen. some slack, because GG will be coming after his pay and the moving target just went lower.

 

[dlredline]

Dizel8,

I respectfully disagree. I cut no one slack who kicks a downed, bloodied and wounded group trying to make the best of an extremely bad situation. The industry is shifting permanently, and for mulitple reasons. To pin it on this one group is naive, and his statement was IMHO profoundly insulting.

Red

 

[100LL... Again!]

Methinks the General is trying to dig himself out of a little freudian slip.


Let's revisit his original quote:

They are fighting for their lives over there, and bringing down the rest of the industry.

Now, the honorable General wants us to believe this:

Hey, if you read my quote again you can see that I know they are fighting for their lives---and at the same time the industry is going down with them. You can think it was a slam, but it wasn't. I was saying that most of our wages are going down with them. Read into that any way you want to--it is true.

Perhaps you should consider a career in politics?

Your original intent was clear as crystal. Please do not further insult our intelligence by suggesting we misread such a blatant statement.

You must have a very poor grip on the English language if you think
sentence #1=sentence #2.

Let me explain the way the word 'and' works in your original sentence.

"And" is used to join two actions attributable to one person/thing, etc.

This is what your original statement meant.

"They are fighting for their lives over there, AND THEY ARE bringing down the rest of the industry."

I would suggest some tutoring in English, but I don't believe that it was a mistake.

Now I hope you get a 50% cut. For an attitude like that, you "deserve" it.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Inclusivescope,

Econ 101, huh? The only way to combat lower fares is to have more seats available on each plane to spread out the costs. A 50 seat RJ and low fares do not work well together. Sure, there is excess capacity out there---but there are also LCCs. They have driven the fares down---and it will be interesting to see if Independance can be profitable using mostly CRJ-200s. They will need to run those things 15 hours a day to have a chance at squeezing out some revenue---and with bad wx and constant ground delays in the NE---it will be a sight to see.

General, you said:

"The only way to combat lower fares is to have more seats available on each plane to spread out the costs."
Are you agreeing with management that the only solution is to reduce costs? I thought you wanted to increase revenue? The only way to increase revenue is to DECREASE the seats available. Using your logic, maybe DAL should put 777 on each route. I doubt that would "spread out the costs" as you say. I suspect that would send DAL to the courthouse steps. Your lack of knowledge on economic matters is really showing General.

 

[100LL... Again!]

And I guess that they're breathing your air too, General?

 

[General Lee]

Dizel8 actually backed me up! Thank you. Well, most of you may not understand exactly what I meant---and I was trying to point out that those guys at USAir were trying to keep their jobs and doing what they had to--but in the process ALL of us are having our wages lowered. That isn't only due to USAir and their problems--but the Major Carriers and their finacial woes. Remember, this new Flightinfo format does not allow me to edit after 10 mins---and if I wrote something that might have been misconstrued---I couldn't even change it if I wanted to. Looking at it again---it did sound harsh--- and I couldn't edit it after ten minutes----but I was trying to say something in the line of "As they fight for their lives, all of our wages are getting lowered too." I think "Red" wants to believe that I could be mean---but I am not and I love this job and enjoy all parts of this industry. If I could re-word that last part of my statement--I would--and it would be reworded to better show what I actually meant. And, by the way, I will be taking Jack Ryan's place for Senate in the Illinois race-----and I never took my wife to a sex club......Please send your donations to "General Lee for Senate, then President, then Dalpa MEC Chair......"


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[StopNTSing]

Take a chill-pill dlredline & the rest of you!

Dizel8,

I respectfully disagree. I cut no one slack who kicks a downed, bloodied and wounded group trying to make the best of an extremely bad situation. The industry is shifting permanently, and for mulitple reasons. To pin it on this one group is naive, and his statement was IMHO profoundly insulting.

Red

The General merely uttered a blinding statement of the obvious. The truth ain't always pretty and sometimes it hurts...but it's still the truth. The sad fact is that there are too many bodies in the lifeboat, and until someone(s) are pitched overboard, the whole boat is in jeopardy. The airlines have NO pricing power because there are too many of them trying to chase too few premium-fare passengers (who have indeed declined in numbers for multiple reasons...not just, for example, those pesky LCC's ). So they keep putting a gun to the head of labor for more & more concessions, ala UAIR. The question is...how low will the UAIR unions be willing to go in pay & QOL before they finally call RSA's hand and tell Bronner to liquidate? It's not for me to say...I don't know that I'd fare any better in their shoes. But it IS undeniably dragging down the profession! Witness UAL and AMR. The best way to keep pilot salaries up is to have profitable airlines. The sooner that happens, the happier we all will be.


P.S. Keep fighting the good fight, General. You DALPA guys are the only ones left who can still lay claim to "pilots defending the profession."

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

It’s a passionate subject to talk about, pay cuts and the state of the industry. I think if you look at the Generals statement without reading anything into it, he's right, and I agree with him. I also think that the guys at US Airways (or any other airline fighting to stay afloat) should do whatever they can to save their jobs and lively hood without concern to the status of the industry, short of crossing a strike line that is. Hopefully we will all see this one through to greener pastures.



The RJ is great, better than a turboprop, not better than a MD-80. It’s not the savior of the industry like many RJ pilots believe. It has its place for sure and its definitely had a effect on the industry, however, if there are too many, all the wannabe's who want to fly heavy equipment one day, can kiss that dream goodbye. I’m not flaming, just giving my honest opinion. I flew at the regionals for 4 years, it was great, sometimes I miss the good "ole times" but I always wanted to make it to the majors, and it’s gonna be an obstacle for many in the future...



BIGBROWNDC8

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

What a sh!ty thread!!!

Hey, don't fart at my fiesta! Time to show you guys the door.

General.....you are at risk of being "fragged!"

LOL

 

[General Lee]

Jeff,

What? I never said I wanted any company to go out of business. It is true, unfortunately, that all of our wages are collectively coming down---and it is unfortunate that the USAir guys HAVE TO go lower for their own survival. I can understand that, but I don't have to like it. I wish we were all getting better. We can only hope for better days ahead. Take it or leave it.

Bye Bye--General Lee