USAirways Furloughs

[Lampshade]

The US Airways and America West collective bargaining agreements will be
modified to allow for a combined maximum of ninety-three (93) CRJ-900, or
other aircraft within the seating and maximum take-off weight limits specified in
Paragraph B above, to be operated in revenue service at any given time at Express
Carriers except that for every two (2) aircraft in excess of the combined 360
aircraft (excluding EMB 190 aircraft) operated at both US Airways and America
West, that are added to revenue service in the mainline fleet, the Company may
allow three (3) additional CRJ-900, or other aircraft within the seating and
maximum take-off weight limits specified in paragraph B above, to be operated in
revenue service at Express Carriers.

1. US Airways were allowed to go over 93 RJ's if the mainline went over 360 which it did for a while, so their's the excuse. "We reducing the fleet so it will take awhile to reduce the RJ's"

2. "to be operated in revenue service" means "hey we're not over the scope by 18 rj's, there just spares!"

They always have so BS, just wait for it.

 

[BUDDHA145]

hmmm!!! I see what you mean...always management interpretaing contracts and agreements their way...or toilet papper!!!!

 

[m80drvr]

Are we helping Kirby manage some expectations now? Too bad ALPA's gone, because with talk like that the old CLT reps likely would have invited you to a little mountain retreat and loved you up. And I'm not talking some Deliverance, backwoods stuff, I'm talkin' a real nice rub down, a good glass of wine....you know. Lance down there in CLT would just love the way you're babbling on....worst positioned airline....oh....that makes him sooooooo HOT!!!

Wow what planet are you living on....really?

Oh yeah this whole recession thing is something Parker and Kirby cooked up to keep you working under LOA93. Those guys sure are smart......

Damn you esat guys have got to step out from under the rock once and a while.

 

[m80drvr]

I do, and obviously I put money on it.

Worst positioned? Check your altimeter setting, homes. International revenue is plummeting, domestic is whupping ass. No one saw it coming, but US Steel has gotten lucky in that regard. They gots cash, they don't pay anyone anything close to industry pay rates. I would ask for you to specify the negative position, but I believe you have not done enough research/contemplation. I know you are a bright guy, I enjoy reading your posts.

Everybody else "gets it." I am not saying that the pilot groups (and ther are very much still 2) will hug it out.

What I am saying is that when it becomes apparent that your cause is lost in fighting your brother, the only reasonable course is to rebuild and fight for what are now mutual goals.

I do think that a judge will make this clear to either the leadership or most likely the pilots of the losing side. The weak link is hoping for them to be "reasonable."

Notice I did not get specific. I have my opinions, but it affects me not at all, and I do not wish to initiate another poop fling-fest.

Please point out the last recession that USAirways actually did well in........... AAA has been in the brink for DECADES what makes you think this will be any different?

Ps Intl is way down but so is domestic demand. Yes the large "regional" airline is and continues to be the worst positioned airline in the industry. It's an LCC with legacy costs.

 

[reepicheep]

No managing of expectations; just look at reality.

The airline is pretty much back where it was in '03, or 1991 for that matter. Out of control unit costs that dwarf all the competition, a Western operation that's completely incable of competing with Southwest, and an airline that's hardly the "carrier of choice". And Bk can't be far ahead unless things turn around in a hurry. We've all seen this act before; what's different this time?

I'd plan on an indefinite furlough, certainly not recalls.

 

[m80drvr]

Sorry but after 25 years in this business I'm pretty skeptical about any success stories via this process.

My guess is in this environment there's no way in he!! they're bringing back mainline hulls & pilots. They'll either eliminate a bunch of marginal markets they were about to vacate anyway, or replace the large rj's with smaller types that don't
violate the contract.

That will be the outcome. USAirways has never been afraid to "shrink to profitability". He!! that's the old USAir mantra unfortunately that and a complete disregared for employees and their contracts has now infected Parker and the Tempe Tombstone.

They will just park the jets. They will not lease more airbuses just to recall that furloughs. That would cost way too much and someone would have to justify whay their were furloughs in the first place.

Recalls won't happen. Maybe the block hour thing will help but I doubt that also.

 

[m80drvr]

No managing of expectations; just look at reality.

The airline is pretty much back where it was in '03, or 1991 for that matter. Out of control unit costs that dwarf all the competition, a Western operation that's completely incable of competing with Southwest, and an airline that's hardly the "carrier of choice". And Bk can't be far ahead unless things turn around in a hurry. We've all seen this act before; what's different this time?

I'd plan on an indefinite furlough, certainly not recalls.

I kills me that some think this is all a negotiating ploy to "manage expectations"

LOOK AT THE PAST 30YEARS OF USAIR'S EXISTANCE. NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT THE PAINT ON THE AIRPLANES.

 

[reepicheep]

I kills me that some think this is all a negotiating ploy to "manage expectations"

LOOK AT THE PAST 30YEARS OF USAIR'S EXISTANCE. NOTHING HAS CHANGED EXCEPT THE PAINT ON THE AIRPLANES.

Well, in fairness I'd say 20 years. Prior to that they seemed to be sitting pretty. Then two mergers that didn't make any sense; done only to fend off a takeover. And no vision. Ordered F100's and 737's. Built up small-town PIT. No interest in big airplanes or international 'till it was way too late. Look at airlines like Delta and American in the early 80's. Not much international either. They bet big and look where they are today.

 

[m80drvr]

Well, in fairness I'd say 20 years. Prior to that they seemed to be sitting pretty. Then two mergers that didn't make any sense; done only to fend off a takeover. And no vision. Ordered F100's and 737's. Built up small-town PIT. No interest in big airplanes or international 'till it was way too late. Look at airlines like Delta and American in the early 80's. Not much international either. They bet big and look where they are today.

Point taken, 20 years of history. Who says history doesn't repeat itself.


Just one quick point. Prior to the merger AWA was completely capable of competing with SWA. They were hiring pilots with planes on order. I'm not trying to rehash the who saved who argument just pointing out that they were doing well, No, AWA wasn't an intl. powerhouse but they were expanding. But when the high unit costs of the east were spread over the combined company you began to see the west unable to compete with SWA. Then the high oil prices arrived and no one could compete.

Then again USAir’s high costs are most likely a management ploy.

.

 

[Turtle21]

... I'm not trying to rehash the who saved who argument ....

Don't kid yourself. You will be rehashing that argument when you are in a rocker on the front porch long after you retire. And ain't no one's mind gonna be changed between now and then.

 

[reepicheep]

I don't think either airline was capable of saving the other. Life expectancy was obviously shorter for Airways without the deal.

I doubt the architects of this merger had any illusions about the long-term viability of "LCC". They surely had enough history to go on to realize what was going to happen when they tried another PSA-type marriage. There was too much money on the table to pass it up; don't worry about nagging details like what happens to the west when you double their costs. They got rich and are long gone. We got stuck holding the bag. If you've been paying attention to what's going on in the world the last year I guess it sounds familiar.

 

[BeCareful!]

Man, this is bordering on civilized discussion. I'm impressed and will follow suit

I agree with all that getting East off the LOA93 Management Gravy Train with its they-say-jump-you-ask-how-high work rules (thanks ALPA) is a very important issue for recalling our furloughed brothers and sisters.

As such, I encourage any and all west guys who have become members to look closely at the positions of the candidates for national office. Doug Mowery is running, and he was the freekin' Chairman of ALPA's negotiating committee during the introduction of LOA 93. He also supports 99 hour pay caps....right now!

I cannot stress enough how dangerous this man is to our careers, how badly he's already damaged mine, and how we must not allow him or any of the previous ALPA Give Away Gang back into power. Let them fly the line and allow people with some fortitude and vision in there to make the best of what we've got going for us.

My money is on Mike Cleary and Randy Mowrey (Mowery and Mowrey....sheeze)
for now, but I'm going to study this further.

Thanks for reading

BC

 

[m80drvr]

Man, this is bordering on civilized discussion. I'm impressed and will follow suit

I agree with all that getting East off the LOA93 Management Gravy Train with its they-say-jump-you-ask-how-high work rules (thanks ALPA) is a very important issue for recalling our furloughed brothers and sisters.

As such, I encourage any and all west guys who have become members to look closely at the positions of the candidates for national office. Doug Mowery is running, and he was the freekin' Chairman of ALPA's negotiating committee during the introduction of LOA 93. He also supports 99 hour pay caps....right now!

I cannot stress enough how dangerous this man is to our careers, how badly he's already damaged mine, and how we must not allow him or any of the previous ALPA Give Away Gang back into power. Let them fly the line and allow people with some fortitude and vision in there to make the best of what we've got going for us.

My money is on Mike Cleary and Randy Mowrey (Mowery and Mowrey....sheeze)
for now, but I'm going to study this further.

Thanks for reading

BC

I will keep it civilized also, thank you for following suit and not flame baiting. That being said, I will assure you that you will not get much support from the west pilots as long as the east is trying to "renegotiate/reorder” an arbitrated list. In fact, I find it interesting that USAPA is telling the empire pilots that they cannot mess with an arbitrated list all the while telling the west pilots that the arbitration decision is like a crew meal and can be reordered and renegotiated at will.

Listen, I am not going to make this another 12 page mudslinging post but I cannot believe that a union is telling one set of pilots one thing while telling another group something totally opposite. I’m furloughed out of seniority order so it’s up to you all to fix this, but I think it’s too late. Way too much bad blood on both sides. But good luck hopefully it works out for those that are left. It’s unfortunate that it has come to this but it has an cooler heads have not stepped up. Maybe some change will come with the elections but I’m not holding my breath.

Later, Thanks again for keeping it civil. (Hopefully Marty MCDOOOOOOSH stays out of this)

 

[vetrider]

Man, this is bordering on civilized discussion. I'm impressed and will follow suit


My money is on Mike Cleary and Randy Mowrey (Mowery and Mowrey....sheeze)
for now, but I'm going to study this further.

Thanks for reading

BC

Alot of guys are still working on there and their, including me sometimes, the Mow ery and rey might take awhile yet. I'm a member in good standing, not that it matters much, but Cleary is not getting my vote.