UsAirways/AA pay parity?

[Bringupthebird]

Now, with that being said, I intend to stay neutral.

Of course you will...

I would welcome the chance to run your "FOM gauntlet". You would see your futility in just a couple minutes.

But why continue your jihad against your fellow pilots and just pressure your union reps to truly represent those they extort money from. That's not an east/west issue its a right and wrong issue. Do you need McKee to tell you what side of that you should support?

I mean since you feign neutrality and all...

 

[The Drizzle]

But why continue your jihad against your fellow pilots and just pressure your union reps to truly represent those they extort money from.

Laughable. Out of 18 emails sent and 6 phone calls placed to my representatives and USAPA leadership regarding seniority, the west, the merger , etc. I have received exactly one email reply and one message in return essentially telling me to ******************** off until I've been here 20 years. Pressure, my ass. I'm not the only one who has such experience. We even have a joke among Third Listes to include "DOH" in the subject line to at least have a hope of somebody reading it. We make up ~25% of the east bid positions right now and we can't get so much as a peep back.

GL, I'd say 90-95% of the Third-list(or better yet, new hire) cohort are aware of EXACTLY where we stand with regard to the West. Every single one of them is ahead of us, bar none. When we are finally smushed together, we will be just that.

 

[JumpersAway]

BringUpTheBird- it's disturbing to see that you have no issue with putting someone else's tail on the line to advance your own cause. I intend to stay neutral by not taking sides or putting forth any effort to advance either cause. However, if you had your way, you would use me as a tool to effect the change that suits you. I find it laughable that after that emphasis, you attack my integrity and preach right vs. wrong. Regarding the FOM- my ability to follow it and adhere to company policy isn't futile.

You will ultimately become your own worst enemy. As you attempt to exert your agenda on pilots that have nothing to do with the outcome of the "NIC" debacle, it will blow up in your face. Eventually, it will come to a head in the Chief Pilot's office.

General Lee- your reading comprehension is lacking. I've never once posted anything about being placed in front of anyone from AWA. My steadfast belief is that the third list should go DOH behind all previously hired USAirways/AWA pilots. As I've said countless times, in countless other posts- I'm absolutely aware of what happened regarding the NIC. I also find it amusing that showing up, flying a safe aircraft, and not carrying any judgement into the cockpit with possible safety implications makes me an "arse", as you so eloquently put it. I fly and let them argue............why is that so difficult for you to comprehend????

At the end of the day, I intend to bust tail to build a great airline and work with great people. With 32 Years of flying on the horizon, I intend to make the best of my aviation career and work environment. I think American, going forward, will provide unprecedented gains and career realizations for any new pilot that is smart enough to look through your B.S. smoke screens, bogus 3rd lister accusations, and ill concieved notions. I wish you the best in contract 2015 and in building a Delta noted for service..........because I intend to surpass it.

 

[Bad-Andy]

I'm convinced General Lee is a west pilot.

I'm convinced he's not even a pilot. Rather, he's someone paid by the guys running this board to instigate. More instigation = more posts. More posts = more viewers. More viewers = more ad revenue.

Surely someone on a wide-body at Delta has somewhere far better to spend all that money than here (arguing and being insulted on the internet). Just sayin'...

 

[dollacrackho]

I think the GL has some issues so maybe everyone should just pat him on the head and let him blather on in the corner. He's kind of like the rain man . He has 3 or 4 subjects he just hammers away on with unwavering devotion. In fact i think he is sitting in his moms basement right now wearing his pilot uniform sitting in his make believe cockpit on his 18 hr flight to Mumbai blabbing away to his stuffed animal copilot . Binding arbitration , blah blah blah southwest sucks blah blah blah , mom make a turkey meatloaf, Delta, Delta, Delta blah blah blah.

 

[General Lee]

"You're convinced....." You don't like that I'm right, plain and simple. Instead of debating the facts, you attack the messenger. Funny stuff.

Look, the NIC award was awarded fairly after all sides agreed to the process and agreed to the arbitrator. I know several West pilots (and even a couple East pilots) and I've watched their bad situation.

So, quit the BS, and recognize the injustice. This issue shouldn't still be lingering. But, hopefully it will be solved with two upcoming arbitration panels. I can't wait. Popcorn ready.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Adam-Lambert-Debuts-on-Glee-as-Starchild-398382-2.jpg

 

[Green]

Your CLT base chairman disagrees. He thinks, correctly, that the first panel of arbitrators, who all know or know of their peer Nicolau, and the second panel most likely, will side with their profession and their own awards. Your side used the majority to NOT come up with a joint contract, to NOT use a binding award you disagreed with. Sorry, that's the truth. You keep trying to get around the fact that you all signed up for a SLI with Nicolau as the judge, the joint contract was a sideshow after you disagreed with the award.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

But it wasn't FAIR!!! We all know Us Air pilots were vastly superior to the "westicles" and should have been placed at the top of the list regardless of career expectations or any other mumbo jumbo. They are men of honor and the gold standard of DOH should always apply. Oh wait they don't want DOH anymore....

 

[Green]

I think the GL has some issues so maybe everyone should just pat him on the head and let him blather on in the corner. He's kind of like the rain man . He has 3 or 4 subjects he just hammers away on with unwavering devotion. In fact i think he is sitting in his moms basement right now wearing his pilot uniform sitting in his make believe cockpit on his 18 hr flight to Mumbai blabbing away to his stuffed animal copilot . Binding arbitration , blah blah blah southwest sucks blah blah blah , mom make a turkey meatloaf, Delta, Delta, Delta blah blah blah.

Yet nobody can refute his argument on the NIC. Instead some just choose to attack him. Anyone who doesn't think the East is in the wrong either isn't paying attention or has something to gain by discarding the NIC. It's like saying we shouldn't punish scabs because it happened a long time ago and we should all just move on. Convenient argument until it's you that they put out of a job.

 

[General Lee]

General,

But it wasn't FAIR!!! We all know Us Air pilots were vastly superior to the "westicles" and should have been placed at the top of the list regardless of career expectations or any other mumbo jumbo. They are men of honor and the gold standard of DOH should always apply. Oh wait they don't want DOH anymore....

Yeah, I guess you're right...all of those Easties are just like Sulley too, full of integrity! Just like the Eastie MEC chair who extolled Nicolau after picking him also for the "binding" arbitration.... Stand up people. Yep.

Let's throw in a great paragraph from the NIC award itself:

"Beyond this, at the time of the merger announcement, US Airways had a significant number of pilots on furlough while America West had none. Moreover, the financial future of US Airways was not comparable to or as bright as that of America West. These factors, as could be predicted, led to great differences In the Parties' concepts of a fair and equitable merger."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Carl S.]

Please refer to Usapa in the past tense going forward for proper diction...

 

[LearLove]

Alg,

It's great that you got the deal you did with MidAtlantic. Nobody is begrudging you that. But if we are going to be honest you flowed through to express with the guarantee of flowing to mainline someday. Just like Eagle pilots are guaranteed a flow through to AA. But until you are able to put your bid in for mainline equipment you are not mainline. I don't think that's splitting hairs. You were not allowed to bid A330, 767, etc because you had not YET moved up to US Airways. Just like an Eagle pilot can't bid for MD-80FO until he/she actually flows through to mainline.

Hey Green, are you allowed to bid the 330 or 767? So I guess by your logic you west guys aren't mainline.

And BTW that "deal" wasn't just handed to us. We took pays cuts in order to get that deal. And at the same time we took pay cuts I was kicked out of the left seat, back to FO pay at the lower rate. Then remained there until flowing to MDA. It s not as if we were 500 hour CFI's and handed a mainline job (or potential flow thru or whatever you call it). The most junior guy to make it over had 5 years with ALG. Most had been capts and ALL of us sacrificed pay and working conditions in order to keep US Air limping along to get to where we are today.

 

[get2flyin]

Hey Green, are you allowed to bid the 330 or 767? So I guess by your logic you west guys aren't mainline.

Good news! With today's NMB announcement, that should be rectified soon.

 

[LearLove]

Good news! With today's NMB announcement, that should be rectified soon.

Yeah, you'll be bidding the 777 in DFW real soon. Just keep holding your breath.

 

[get2flyin]

Yeah, you'll be bidding the 777 in DFW real soon. Just keep holding your breath.

No silly. I still (unfortunately) work for USAir so why would I think I would have any access to AA's wide body equipment? Besides, I'm happy as an FO in PHX for now. I'll take PHL 320 captain soon enough.

 

[LearLove]

No silly. I still (unfortunately) work for USAir so why would I think I would have any access to AA's wide body equipment? Besides, I'm happy as an FO in PHX for now. I'll take PHL 320 captain soon enough.

So you think APA is going to wave a magic wand and implement the NIC?

 

[get2flyin]

So you think APA is going to wave a magic wand and implement the NIC?

I think I'm going to have actual representation for the first time in 8 years. Does that scare you?

 

[LearLove]

No not really. I'm at the bottom anyway. DOH vs. NIC is maybe a diff of 75 numbers for me.

How many west guys are there with DOH between July2004 and Save Dave?

 

[General Lee]

No not really. I'm at the bottom anyway. DOH vs. NIC is maybe a diff of 75 numbers for me.

How many west guys are there with DOH between July2004 and Save Dave?

Then mix in some AA pilots, and it isn't 75 numbers anymore. Welcome to arbitration that sticks, right? And you're still on DOH, huh? Ain't gonna happen Lear for pre AA merger announcement, regardless of what Sulley wanted.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

I believe the following will likely be the new rates:

Increase pay rates on Day of Signing (DOS) or Jan 1 2015, whichever is earlier, to the following:
Group I ? A 16.29% increase
Group II ? An increase to match DL 737 2015 pay rate
Group III ? An increase to match DL 767 2015 pay rate
Group IV ? An increase to match DL 777 2015 pay rate
Group V ? A 16.29% increase
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2016.
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2017.
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2018.
First year pay
Increase to $68.22 per hour
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2016.
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2017.
3.5% increase on Jan 1, 2018.
Eliminate Supplement A (the mid-contract pay adjustment).
The following charts illustrate the pay rates associated with our proposal.

12 year CA pay DOS or Jan 2015
Group I II III IV V
$143.04 $216.92 $226.21 $270.25 $280.91

Jan 2016
$152.66 $224.51 $234.13 $279.71 $290.74

Jan 2017
$158.01 $232.37 $242.32 $289.50 $300.92

Jan 2018
$163.54 $240.50 $250.80 $299.63 $311.45

12 year FO pay DOS or Jan 2015
Group I II III IV V
$100.30 $147.51 $153.82 $183.77 $191.02

Jan 2016
$103.81 $152.67 $159.21 $190.20 $197.70

Jan 2017
$107.45 $158.01 $164.78 $196.86 $204.63

Jan 2018
$111.21 $163.54 $170.54 $203.75 $211.79

First Year Pay= DOS or Jan 2015 = $68.22, Jan 2016 = $70.61, Jan 2017=$73.08, Jan 2018=$75.64

Airbus A321

Make A321 flying pay equivalent to Group III
Profit Sharing

Profit sharing plan that matches DL profit sharing plan.
10% of the first $2.5 Billion
20% of the portion over $2.5 Billion
Profit sharing receives 16% DC contribution.
Scheduling

Amend Section 15.G Average Day
Change value to 5:30
Apply to calendar days versus duty periods
Length of Service

Provide full length of service restoration for all furloughed pilots who have returned to active service with new American Airlines.
Amend the CBA to make LOS automatic for any future furlough.
With the introduction of these proposals we will be transitioning to a different phase of negotiations where larger issues will now be in play. As Presidents Wilson and Hummel said in their message??The time to close the gap with Delta is now.?

Regular update on discussions of last four negotiating sessions:

While the above items are our highest priority, many other aspects of the MTA deserve our attention also. The Joint Committee has been engaged with the Company on the following topics:

Occupational Date ? this is the date that your seniority number is driven from. The joint committee has proposed a modification for new-hires going forward to give AA and US new hires similar application.
Company Paid Life Insurance. The joint committee proposed a significant increase in the benefit.
Lock-ins. The joint committee proposed a shortened lock-in for pilots completing shorter 777 to 787 qualification course. This matches the current Legacy US Airways process for A 320 to A 330 transition and expect a similar application for a possible A330 to A350 training course.
Pay ? The joint committee proposed changing the trigger for pilot pay to the cabin door closing/opening versus aircraft movement.
Vacation ? the joint committee proposed raising the max vacation day accrual, beginning at 20 years longevity, from 31 to 35.
P2 system (Required Company event reports) ? The joint committee proposed amendments to the P2 system to narrow the scope of the system and to provide increased pilot protections / indemnifications.
Air Safety and Investigations ? the joint committee proposed language giving the Association codified participation status in all investigations and safety exercises.
Training, Check Airman and TUL Flight Test. The joint committee proposed improvements to CKA and TUL pay to permit those pilots to achieve the same IMAX average of 90 hours per month as regular pilots. Also proposed improved scheduling provisions unique to CKA and TUL.
With respect to training our current CBA language is quite outdated and does not confirm to the processes and provisions of AQP, FAR 117, etc. We will be working on modernizing Section 6 language.
Other areas. We also discussed general improvements in moving expenses, uniforms, Satellite airport provisions, deadheading, reserve, furlough benefits and vacation.
New Tentative Agreements (effective on DOS)
Tentative Agreements were reached on:

Supplement Z ? Terrorism Hostage Sabotage. The TA expands the types of events that qualify for inclusion. Company subsidized Cobra medical coverage provided to pilot dependents.
International Override ? Add Mexico, in its entirety, to the geographic area qualifying for international override.
Post training rest ? Increases the minimum post-training rest to 12 hours (from 10).
Uniforms ? Company will provide the following uniform items at no cost to the pilot:
complete uniform to new hires,
any new/changed Company-required uniform component(s),
epaulets, ties, emblems, wings and braiding as reasonably needed.
Captain hat on initial upgrade to Captain (if a required wear item)
Satellite Crew Base ? modernized and updated to reflect Tablet Computer (iPad) support.
The Joint Committee will continue to work to improve our contract, in both large and small areas, to provide you with a contract that has improvements in not only compensation but the all-important quality of life areas also. We will be providing you with ongoing updates as this process progresses.

Sincerely,

Your Joint APA/USAPA Negotiating Team