UsAirways/AA pay parity?

[JumpersAway]

KiddDynomite- age has far less to do with earnings potential than will your current place of employment. Are you military, regional pilot, corporate, or LCC? If you can elaborate, you will likely gain better advise, unless you're just looking to stir the pot. At 45, you will have 20 solid years of airline flying, and a captain bid on a wide body is not off the table for you. Where would you be within that 20 years at your current place of employment, and what will the payscales be like then, do you guess?

Sure, if the numbers don't work at the current moment for you, then they just don't work. You may choose to wait on DAL or UAL to call. That's fine too. However, 11000 other applicants are choosing not to. With only 4 large passenger carriers to choose from, it's best to get in the game and try them all, in my opinion. The financial decision to move on to USAirways was a tough one for me. I knew what I was getting into in regard to the pay. However, I also refused to bet my entire future on unknown job interviews and chance. Every day that I stood by and waited on DAL or UAL was a number lost at USAirways/American. Simple fact remains that great people haven't made it through the process at other airlines, when I felt they should have. Are you willing to wager your future on these two airlines?

 

[General Lee]

Agree completely Jump. A toxic envirnment is self induced. I have had a great time flying with the guys here. Some real good times. I passed an older Captain in CLT who was clearly headed to the crew room. He was on the other side of the concourse with a big smile on his face. I nodded as we passed he pointed at me and said "you headed home buddy?" Is said yup. He said "alright man! Have a good one." A guy like that brings that attitude with him. I was impressed.

And look how much money that East Capt has lost since their squabble started? Old pay rates for an extra 7-8 years. Less money put into his 401K. Sounds like an idiot to me. But, he did "contain" the Westies in PHX! Wow, good for him! Time to retire! What a dumb arse!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JumpersAway]

General- get off it already............. Why not contribute an answer that is more in line with the thread title? Don't you proclaim your joy in "enlightenment" often????? The entire board knows how you feel about the "NIC", over and over and over and over and over and over and over......................

 

[General Lee]

General- get off it already............. Why not contribute an answer that is more in line with the thread title? Don't you proclaim your joy in "enlightenment" often????? The entire board knows how you feel about the "NIC", over and over and over and over and over and over and over......................

Prospective newhires don't. They should know more about this before their big choice. It's a public service. You're welcome. It appears you are the one who wants to hide this mess.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

BringUpTheBird- the toxic work environment is self induced because that is what you choose .

No the toxic environment is yet to come when crews are merged. You and those you have enabled through your indifference have robbed every west pilot of 7 years of advancement. There are few willing to forgive the lost ability to bid vacations with their families or upgrade to the position they would have held absent USAPA. . Why shouldn't your buddy on the east give you such a hearty welcome? You have helped him in his goal of destroying the careers of the west pilots. You will have earned the cold welcome to come when you fly with a west pilot who can never recoup what you chose to take from him.

So please stop trying to sell their little plot of land you've chosen to salt.

 

[get2flyin]

No difference really. Everyone that came to MDA through the flow-thru came from Piedmont. And before the first class went, they knew they were being added to the ML seniority list. That was the deal.

Yawn. Here we go again.

 

[The Drizzle]

No the toxic environment is yet to come when crews are merged. You and those you have enabled through your indifference have robbed every west pilot of 7 years of advancement. There are few willing to forgive the lost ability to bid vacations with their families or upgrade to the position they would have held absent USAPA. . Why shouldn't your buddy on the east give you such a hearty welcome? You have helped him in his goal of destroying the careers of the west pilots. You will have earned the cold welcome to come when you fly with a west pilot who can never recoup what you chose to take from him.

So please stop trying to sell their little plot of land you've chosen to salt.

yay! blaming newhires!

 

[ALGFLYR]

Yawn. Here we go again.

Here we go again? What are you talking about? Someone asked if there was anyone hired after 9/11 but before the US/AWA merger in 2005. And there was in fact around 100 flow-thru's that were added to the ML seniority list in 2004. It was a simple answer to a simple question.

 

[get2flyin]

Here we go again? What are you talking about? Someone asked if there was anyone hired after 9/11 but before the US/AWA merger in 2005. And there was in fact around 100 flow-thru's that were added to the ML seniority list in 2004. It was a simple answer to a simple question.

If I asked an AA pilot about "pilots on property", I don't think he'd tell me about how many Eagle pilots there are.

 

[ALGFLYR]

If I asked an AA pilot about "pilots on property", I don't think he'd tell me about how many Eagle pilots there are.

Not following you. That AA pilot would tell you about the Eagle flows that actually flowed and were on the property. Not the Eagle pilots that had not flowed. So are the Eagle pilots that flowed and on the AA ML seniority list not considered AA pilots?

 

[get2flyin]

Not following you. That AA pilot would tell you about the Eagle flows that actually flowed and were on the property. Not the Eagle pilots that had not flowed. So are the Eagle pilots that flowed and on the AA ML seniority list not considered AA pilots?

"That flowed", that's the key term. Not "will flow" when a new hire slot at AA (or in your case, old USAir) opens up.

 

[ALGFLYR]

"That flowed", that's the key term. Not "will flow" when a new hire slot at AA (or in your case, old USAir) opens up.

Ok, you win. Someone asked a question. The answer I provided was correct. Anything else you're trying to make out of this is irrelevant. I really don't care and this is my last post about this... Have a great night...

 

[Bringupthebird]

yay! blaming newhires!

Nope, blaming every single east pilot that did not stand up at the BPR meetings and demand that USAPA represent ALL US pilots and stop dragging out the SLI to the detriment of their fellow pilots. Guilty by association.

If you were one of those who risked their popularity among the USAPA faithful in order hold them accountable and reject the attacks on west pilots that weakens the entire pilot group, then I give you both my thanks and my respect.

However there is no record of any such person doing that.

Moving forward there will be a fresh slate with the APA to see what path they choose and support them in building a strong unified pilot group if that is the direction they want to take us. But they will brook none of USAPA's nonsense when CLT/DCA/PHL elect reps, of that you can be assured.

The east will have to live with the consequences of their actions for the remainder of their careers. I would not be surprised if at some point the east pilots will be memorialized just as were certain Continental, United and eastern pilots who chose to take from fellow pilots to enrich themselves. And a 4-day trip of professional, but sterile conversation will be devoid of the relaxed comraderie that you may have enjoyed in the past. You might cope by labeling him or her as "a jerk" or worse, but when you see it consistently from a wide array of your co-workers you may just be honest enough with yourself to realize who the "jerk" really is.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Back to the sub topic, though. I suppose it is true that merging the APA group in plus new hires will dilute the east-west toxicity to some extent. And a new-hire (at least the ones I've flown with) brings a long-absent enthusiasm to the flight deck which tends to thwart negative east-west monologues. But if a potential pilot was asking about coming to US it would be disingenuous to leave out the part about being on reserve for 10 years and having virtually every benefit of the merger come at your expense and those benefits passing through to the group whose leaders are expected to represent you and fight against such injustice. When that changes, then perhaps it becomes a place to recommend.

 

[Green]

Not following you. That AA pilot would tell you about the Eagle flows that actually flowed and were on the property. Not the Eagle pilots that had not flowed. So are the Eagle pilots that flowed and on the AA ML seniority list not considered AA pilots?

Alg,

It's great that you got the deal you did with MidAtlantic. Nobody is begrudging you that. But if we are going to be honest you flowed through to express with the guarantee of flowing to mainline someday. Just like Eagle pilots are guaranteed a flow through to AA. But until you are able to put your bid in for mainline equipment you are not mainline. I don't think that's splitting hairs. You were not allowed to bid A330, 767, etc because you had not YET moved up to US Airways. Just like an Eagle pilot can't bid for MD-80FO until he/she actually flows through to mainline.

I would bet money that if the roles were reversed and MidAtlantic was an express division of AWA then the Easties would have done everything in their power to scratch MidAtlantic off the list in the merger. It's just a matter of their character as a group. Padding their list with MidAtlantic bodies helped them by adding more numbers to the bottom of their list. Just like backing off DOH now that three lists are being considered benefits them. No more talk of the "gold standard." Nice group of weasels running the show at USAPA.

 

[TheRaven]

As long as there is a giant fence to protect the AA widebodies I think the rest will work itself out. Definitely not fair to legacy AA pilots if USAir guys get access to 120+ widebodies while bringing 30 to the table. I had a USAir FO tell me after the merge he'd be a Heavy Captain....I doubt that.

 

[St. Nic]

As long as there is a giant fence to protect the AA widebodies I think the rest will work itself out. Definitely not fair to legacy AA pilots if USAir guys get access to 120+ widebodies while bringing 30 to the table. I had a USAir FO tell me after the merge he'd be a Heavy Captain....I doubt that.

Time served, you get what you earn! We are one airline now, there is no east west or AA. If a US Air Fo did say that it wasn't from an east pilot

 

[zasca]

Well there are plenty of FO's at AAA with 25+ on property, so his statement is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[JumpersAway]

General- you have no clue about what you speak when referencing the "new hire" experience at USAirways/American. The only thing you see is what you WANT to see. How about letting new hires pass on their experience without the Delta cool aid spin?

Bring up the Bird- "guilt through association"????? That is rich! New guy walks through the door and is on probation, and yet you expect- demand- that they stand up and take your side???? I'm not even allowed into a union meeting on probation. I also find it disgusting that you intend to force your toxicity on those that share the cockpit with you and you see this as acceptable. This viewpoint alone tells me more about your lack of professionalism and character than any "East" pilot could hope to portray. Very well done- you're smearing yourself. As for "cold" flight decks- that's awesome by me. From what I'm seeing from you, the quieter you are the better. This is a job, and not a social function. Frankly, I don't care what you do over there in your seat since the paycheck doesn't have your signature on it. Besides, I've found the best defense against a cockpit clown is good knowledge of the FOM and OM. Something tells me you'd be hating life more than I would be on a four day trip.

Now, with that being said, I intend to stay neutral. As a third list pilot, I only get irritated when I'm forcibly dragged into the mess I had nothing to do with in the first place.

To any prospective new hires- the type of rubbish above is absolutely the rarity. The huge majority of people here are fantastic, East-West-American. The only action I regret is not attempting to make the move sooner.

 

[Metrojet]

Reserve in PHX is 10 years. I think that's a little worse than CLT.

Flamer!

 

[Green]

Time served, you get what you earn! We are one airline now, there is no east west or AA. If a US Air Fo did say that it wasn't from an east pilot

Wow did you just say that?!! Does that mean there is no East or West Us Airways?

 

[get2flyin]

JumpersAway, I like where your head's at. Carry on!

 

[General Lee]

Well there are plenty of FO's at AAA with 25+ on property, so his statement is not out of the realm of possibility.

But most are junior to West guys on the NIC award. Means nothing. Read the award again, NIC stated USAir's precarious financial position prior AWA acquiring them. You need to read NIC's actual award and his explanation.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General- you have no clue about what you speak when referencing the "new hire" experience at USAirways/American. The only thing you see is what you WANT to see. How about letting new hires pass on their experience without the Delta cool aid spin?

Bring up the Bird- "guilt through association"????? That is rich! New guy walks through the door and is on probation, and yet you expect- demand- that they stand up and take your side???? I'm not even allowed into a union meeting on probation. I also find it disgusting that you intend to force your toxicity on those that share the cockpit with you and you see this as acceptable. This viewpoint alone tells me more about your lack of professionalism and character than any "East" pilot could hope to portray. Very well done- you're smearing yourself. As for "cold" flight decks- that's awesome by me. From what I'm seeing from you, the quieter you are the better. This is a job, and not a social function. Frankly, I don't care what you do over there in your seat since the paycheck doesn't have your signature on it. Besides, I've found the best defense against a cockpit clown is good knowledge of the FOM and OM. Something tells me you'd be hating life more than I would be on a four day trip.

Now, with that being said, I intend to stay neutral. As a third list pilot, I only get irritated when I'm forcibly dragged into the mess I had nothing to do with in the first place.

To any prospective new hires- the type of rubbish above is absolutely the rarity. The huge majority of people here are fantastic, East-West-American. The only action I regret is not attempting to make the move sooner.

Yes, close your ears and try to avoid hearing about how your future Captains (mostly Westies after this krap is over) were actually treated poorly by your current Captains... But, you only care about yourself. You see, that is why potential newbies there have to know what they may be getting into. Huge turbulence ahead. But, it's great you can just tune it out like it's not happening around you. One of the WORST examples of suppression of a fellow employee group in this profession EVER, and you can whistle at work while it happens. Well done arse hole! It's not happening according to you, heck, it never happened! Disregarding binding arbitration and then containment of a group in one base for 7 years with lower pay through the majority isn't happening now either...... Nope...

Hopefully newhires can bid DFW or MIA ASAP and avoid the East bases. Probably a better atmosphere.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[St. Nic]

General Lee, we didn't ignore binding arbitration. We just chose not to implement it. Now with American the other arbitration cannot be used because it was just a blueprint between east and west. It served it's purpose but there is no longer a purpose for it. Unless your a westicle of course

 

[General Lee]

General Lee, we didn't ignore binding arbitration. We just chose not to implement it. Now with American the other arbitration cannot be used because it was just a blueprint between east and west. It served it's purpose but there is no longer a purpose for it. Unless your a westicle of course

Your CLT base chairman disagrees. He thinks, correctly, that the first panel of arbitrators, who all know or know of their peer Nicolau, and the second panel most likely, will side with their profession and their own awards. Your side used the majority to NOT come up with a joint contract, to NOT use a binding award you disagreed with. Sorry, that's the truth. You keep trying to get around the fact that you all signed up for a SLI with Nicolau as the judge, the joint contract was a sideshow after you disagreed with the award.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Yes, close your ears and try to avoid hearing about how your future Captains (mostly Westies after this krap is over) were actually treated poorly by your current Captains... But, you only care about yourself. You see, that is why potential newbies there have to know what they may be getting into. Huge turbulence ahead. But, it's great you can just tune it out like it's not happening around you. One of the WORST examples of suppression of a fellow employee group in this profession EVER, and you can whistle at work while it happens. Well done arse hole! It's not happening according to you, heck, it never happened! Disregarding binding arbitration and then containment of a group in one base for 7 years with lower pay through the majority isn't happening now either...... Nope...

Hopefully newhires can bid DFW or MIA ASAP and avoid the East bases. Probably a better atmosphere.

Bye Bye---General Lee

GL,

All agree one must decide with eyes wide open. However, you need to be nudged back to the point at hand.

Go back and reread "jumpers" post. Then reread "bringupthebird" post in response. The response was spot on in every point made.

If a pilot can't compartmentalize and provide safe service for any reason whatsoever, then that pilot is NOT FIT FOR DUTY! No pilot should threaten at any time or in the future they will be hostile towards their copilot. Nor should another pilot condone this behavior. This is in direct violation of FAA regs and airline SOPs. Any accident or incident that might occur with a contributing factor of cockpit hostility will be discovered and the pilot(s) fired and rightfully so. That is not safe.

This will likely occur at AA after mixed crews of a very minute percentage, just as all airlines have, and they will lose their jobs.

95% of all guys/gals are top-notch at AA.

 

[pave driver]

So what's the word on pay parity with Delta & UA for the New American and how long can one expect to sit reserve?

Pay parity in 2015 or 2016 due to details of a negotiated deal.

Plan on 6 months short call and 6 months long call on the narrow body. 3-5 months to a line on the 190.

 

[General Lee]

GL,

All agree one must decide with eyes wide open. However, you need to be nudged back to the point at hand.

Go back and reread "jumpers" post. Then reread "bringupthebird" post in response. The response was spot on in every point made.

If a pilot can't compartmentalize and provide safe service for any reason whatsoever, then that pilot is NOT FIT FOR DUTY! No pilot should threaten at any time or in the future they will be hostile towards their copilot. Nor should another pilot condone this behavior. This is in direct violation of FAA regs and airline SOPs. Any accident or incident that might occur with a contributing factor of cockpit hostility will be discovered and the pilot(s) fired and rightfully so. That is not safe.

This will likely occur at AA after mixed crews of a very minute percentage, just as all airlines have, and they will lose their jobs.

95% of all guys/gals are top-notch at AA.

I'm not saying that most pilots at the combined AA won't be good guys/gals. I'm saying there are many though that are delusional, and apparently some third listers that just blind to the actual maltreatment of a large, senior to them portion of their own side of the current company. The AA side isn't guilt free of some past discretions (most past mergers weren't perfect), but I do like and agree with how the APA is at least allowing the AWA guys a shot at correcting injustice with their own 3 panel arbitration to argue their obvious case.

Eventually the big AA merger will turn into a good one overall, after most Easties retire and the third listers recognize their true placement in the scheme of things, behind the AWA pilots that were hired well in front of them, even after they accepted the NIC award.

But there will be years of strife until those Easties retire. No doubt. The APA probably knows that too.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[St. Nic]

I'm convinced General Lee is a west pilot.