USAir's Plans Shift

[Carl S.]

PHX has too much military airspace? When was the last time you flew in here, the early 90's, only Luke and sorties to the Chocolate Mtn. range are active in PHX. Should all hubs be in the Midwest, so those flights to Europe and Asia have that much further to go, pretty myopic in my view. There is more to flying that just the US domestic market when thinking of hub locations.

 

[scoreboardII]

PHX has too much military airspace,

What?

 

[OurMoney1]

I care because East management used Pension Termination as means of saving an airline which is now industry practice. If you can't connect the dots than I apologize.

Pawn the chairs, smoke detectors, uniforms, and tugs, but dont play bingo with guys retirements.

If all things were equal they would have been shut down after 9/11 and then perhaps the DAL guys would still have their retirements.

 

[Colonel Savage]

I care because East management used Pension Termination as means of saving an airline which is now industry practice. If you can't connect the dots than I apologize.

Pawn the chairs, smoke detectors, uniforms, and tugs, but dont play bingo with guys retirements.

If all things were equal they would have been shut down after 9/11 and then perhaps the DAL guys would still have their retirements.

AMR has kept theirs, NWA, AS and CAL have kept theirs but are frozen, DAL pilots over 50 at least had the option to either retire with their pension or stay. UAL and USAir, yes theirs is gone, but that just reflects poorly on their MEC's.

But you are in a different "industry" (overnight), are you not? If you wind up losing your pension one day, consider that the nation wide practice of terminating defined benefit plans in just about every industry in this country will have played a large role as well.

 

[Bringupthebird]

PHX has too much military airspace? When was the last time you flew in here, the early 90's, only Luke and sorties to the Chocolate Mtn. range are active in PHX.

Nope, how about Monday.

The airspace for arrivals into and out of PHX are limited by White Sands to the east and multiple MOAs in the west and northwest. This forces traffic to be channelled into narrow corridors which cannot handle the volume of traffic. If the flow gets backed up to the northeast everything shuts down. It one of the biggest reasons that you can't fly a direct route from places like San Francisco to Phoenix, but instead have to down I-5 to the 10 or go east of Death Valley and down southwest of the Grand Canyon.

You can't even extend a downwind to runway 8 in PHX without getting military approval, and they won't give it.

I think there was a time, when PHX was small that having Luke and Willie close by made sense. Now there's no reason why training can't be moved offshore to someplace like Guam where they can operate with reckless abandon. Politicians love the tax base that Luke brings in, but it doesn't serve the military or the folks living around the airbase to have it in such a congested area.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I care because East management used Pension Termination as means of saving an airline which is now industry practice. If you can't connect the dots than I apologize.

Pawn the chairs, smoke detectors, uniforms, and tugs, but dont play bingo with guys retirements.

If all things were equal they would have been shut down after 9/11 and then perhaps the DAL guys would still have their retirements.

East management illegally terminated a pension that was more than 80 percent funded. They blatantly stole and hid money from the pilots' pension. As this was going on, the Delta pilots and all of the other ALPA brethren laughed at the US Airways' pilots because it was not them. The pilot pension did not save US Airways. Had ALPA shut down all of the airlines when the US Airways' pilot pension was threatened, US Airways would still be here as well as everyone's pensions. The money from the pension went to TPG, not to the airline. We are dumb f*cking pilots who are abused by management. Don't kid yourself thinking differently.

 

[BeCareful!]

East management illegally terminated a pension that was more than 80 percent funded. They blatantly stole and hid money from the pilots' pension. As this was going on, the Delta pilots and all of the other ALPA brethren laughed at the US Airways' pilots because it was not them. The pilot pension did not save US Airways. Had ALPA shut down all of the airlines when the US Airways' pilot pension was threatened, US Airways would still be here as well as everyone's pensions. The money from the pension went to TPG, not to the airline. We are dumb f*cking pilots who are abused by management. Don't kid yourself thinking differently.

Well said, thank you.

 

[reepicheep]

Remember it was USAirways' ALPA leadership that voted, without membership ratification (which admittedly was not required) to terminate the pension. Management didn't have to steal it; it was handed to them.

But I agree with the gist of your post. Should have shut 'er down then and there. Why any US Airways plane moved the next day is beyond me.

 

[Carl S.]

Should SoCal also be shunned due to military airspace to the east and north? White Sands is 200-300nm. to the east of PHX and affects the arrivals as much as the airspace by the big bend in FL when headed to southern FL. It may cause channeling of A/C, but not complete lockdown.

P.S.- no extended downwinds at TPA due to MacDill.

 

[OurMoney1]

Either way is was put before the union by managers who sold the pilot group out. The very people whose retirements are still intact and fat.

I am sympathetic to my fellows and feel for the good of the industry it would have been better to scuttle the ship rather than allow this to be played out.

Boxes or people we are aviators who should stick together. This type of assault on our livlihood can not be tolerated, and unfortunately it was.