USA Today Pilot Pay article

[Laboule]

Exactly, highsky...

Why don't the rest of these smart guys realize that we're all underpaid?

Gee...a doctor could kill someone (not himself or have any impact on the economy).

"WHEN IT'S THE CAPTAIN'S TIME, IT'S EVERYONE'S TIME."

 

[mdf]

I don't get why Legacy pay on larger equipment is less than SWA 737 pay. Is that also SWA Pilot's fault? I don't see any reason why a 74,5,6,7 pilot should be making less than any 737 pilot. I don't care what the market forces are. Management sold a bill of goods, and sounds like some of you bought off on it. No SWA pilot made any legacy work for what they are working for. I wish you all the best, but start the soul searching with yourselves.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

A couple of people suggest that SWA's low relatively lower pay might have had an influence on the current state of industry pay and you two start with the personal attacks. Nobody critisized anybody. No blaming. Just a freaking reasonable observation and you two start your brilliant retorts with a wisecrack. You still haven't addressed the idea that maybe, just maybe, your overall pilot compensation might have had an ever so slight effect on industry wages. How about a little honesty instead of childish BS?

If you were offended, I apologize, but blaming SWA pay ratess for the legacy woes is nonsense in my opinion. Do LCC pay rates have an effect on those at the legacy carriers? I am certain that they do to some small degree. Much less effect than work rules that allow pilots at those carriers to fly less than 500 hours a year.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

And how does that "retirement" compare with what the legacy carriers offered until a few years ago? There will be folks on this board who make less and retire with less than you in the future and offer the same excuses as you. Place your bets. Hope you feel good about yourself for the time being as it will be short lasted.

No excuses here. We have a retirement that is secure and affordable for our employer. We work hard and are compensated well. You seem to believe that we are doomed to be replaced by lower paid competitors. You may be right, if we do not strive every day to operate as safely and efficiently as possible.

 

[canyonblue]

There was no way NWA or DAL or UAL or AA could compete with the significantly lower labor costs.

This in itself is one of the primary reasons pilots will always mess up their own careers. Pilots who think they know the industry, consider themselves "experts" and are under such a spell from management that they spout off ridiculous statements like highsky here. Let me tell you something mister management pilot wannabe, pilot labor costs are not the reason behind airlines losing money, it's the management stupid. SWA has a better management team than most airlines, and that leads to SWA being a sucessful airline. Pilots believing that it is their own pay that is making their airline fail, are just the type of pilots management love. Keep up the good work, you'll be Chief Pilot in no time.uke:

 

[highsky]

Listen quite simply Jackass canyonblue: Let's say you and I both own martini bars next door to one another. We're each charging $15 per martini, and we're driving Corvettes, living in mansions, and having a great life. Tomorrow, I decide to steal some of your business, and start charging $13. The next day, you steal them back by charging $11. Pretty quick, we're both charging $5, and driving '89 Caprice Classics back home to our double-wide. Is there something about that you don't understand fool?

You're absolutely right. SWA does have better management; they were able to fool kool-aid slurping lap dogs like you into paying for your type training to work for a contract that was 40% less than the industry standard. You and the other LCC pilot groups have been the melanoma on all of our livelihoods. You've successfully transformed your pre 9/11 penis envy into an industry advantage. Congratulations. We'll need decades to recover the lost ground, if ever. Remove your head from your rectum dude. We're all living this short life together. I'm not trying to start a flame, just stating the reality with which we and our families must now all live.

I have no more to say on this subject. I'm too busy trying to find a job to replace the one that was destroyed.

 

[instructordude]

Wages definetly are not the problem in the regional level. I will not complain about making 60K as a regional capt knowing I'll make 85k when I make it to the majors as an FO. It isn't anything to sneeze about. With that, looking at JB/Airtan rates is kind of depressing. Everything should get better in a few years though. I will say though, Fedex and SWA rates look pretty good now! Couldn't imagine!

 

[Scrapdog]

Wages definetly are not the problem in the regional level. I will not complain about making 60K as a regional capt knowing I'll make 85k when I make it to the majors as an FO. It isn't anything to sneeze about. With that, looking at JB/Airtan rates is kind of depressing. Everything should get better in a few years though. I will say though, Fedex and SWA rates look pretty good now! Couldn't imagine!

I think everyone now sees - this guy IS the exact reason why there is the low pay rates in the airlines. Thanks for proving all my points instructordude, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[instructordude]

I think everyone now sees - this guy IS the exact reason why there is the low pay rates in the airlines. Thanks for proving all my points instructordude, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Wrong.

 

[100 c.i.]

Wages definetly are not the problem in the regional level. I will not complain about making 60K as a regional capt knowing I'll make 85k when I make it to the majors as an FO. It isn't anything to sneeze about. With that, looking at JB/Airtan rates is kind of depressing. Everything should get better in a few years though. I will say though, Fedex and SWA rates look pretty good now! Couldn't imagine!

Have you stepped into the real world yet Dude, its called paying the mortgage, tuition, Gas, ect. By the way what major,if any are hiring pays 85k to start. I guess with only 3 nights a month at home it will be hard to spend 60k.

 

[Kharma Police]

Wages definetly are not the problem in the regional level. I will not complain about making 60K as a regional capt knowing I'll make 85k when I make it to the majors as an FO. It isn't anything to sneeze about. With that, looking at JB/Airtan rates is kind of depressing. Everything should get better in a few years though. I will say though, Fedex and SWA rates look pretty good now! Couldn't imagine!

Have you graduated from Riddle yet? Which regional would you like to work for?

 

[xjlifer]

The fact he flies a 737 and gets decent pay and benefits shouldn't allow him to get a good deal because it's a 737? Are you kidding me? An airliner is an airliner. You plug your data in the FMS, you push the throttle forward, you throw the gear up, you hit "autopilot on" and you start filling out your sodoku puzzle. Honeslty, the automation in today's airliners is far beyond the VORTAC days of 1980. Who cares what kind of aluminum tube it is. It's a job. It's not like your arguing over the F-22 vs. the F-16 here and which one does a better break turn. Again, who cares. Heck, LUV pilots probably work harder than most other airline guys do the fact they fly 6 or 7 legs a day. Again, how is this a personal issue? If they paid me 190K a year as a 12 year captain with good benefits and I was flying a Navajo, I'd do it. It's a job. Go get another one.

You sir will never last here at FI. You make way to much sense.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Reading between the lines this is what I see on many threads on this board:

Legacy mentality: I am a PILOT at a major. I am OWED all this and more. I will not do anything that is not required by my contract (some of the stuff in the contract I don't like I just won't do...). Anything that does not go my way is obviously due to someone elses incompetence.

LCC mentality: I get paid pretty well. I don't mind working hard to ensure the success of my company. If my company succeeds, then I will succeed. If I don't like it here, I can always go find another job.


yeah that one is gonna get me in trouble...

 

[Palomino]

Reading between the lines this is what I see on many threads on this board:

Legacy mentality: I am a PILOT at a major. I am OWED all this and more. I will not do anything that is not required by my contract (some of the stuff in the contract I don't like I just won't do...). Anything that does not go my way is obviously due to someone elses incompetence.

LCC mentality: I get paid pretty well. I don't mind working hard to ensure the success of my company. If my company succeeds, then I will succeed. If I don't like it here, I can always go find another job.


yeah that one is gonna get me in trouble...

if you replace PILOT with CEO then you are dead on. as is, you are dead wrong.

i take offense to those who say i don't work hard and go the extra mile. i know about service and what it means to paying customers and my coworkers. nothing is more rewarding than surprising someone with stellar service.

just because i don't sing over the p.a. or dress up like Santa Claus doesn't make me lazy. i serve and i serve well in a low profile way. that's how i do things and how i think they should be done. i've seen the results that reinforce my views and my commitment to my profession.

 

[AC560]

There are, of course, MANY reasons for the fall of the legacies. But the pilots of SWA and the other LCCs were obviously a factor.

The failure of the legacies to adapt and compete in a free market environment has been their only problem since deregulation, there is no other.

 

[AC560]

Listen quite simply Jackass canyonblue: Let's say you and I both own martini bars next door to one another. We're each charging $15 per martini, and we're driving Corvettes, living in mansions, and having a great life. Tomorrow, I decide to steal some of your business, and start charging $13. The next day, you steal them back by charging $11. Pretty quick, we're both charging $5, and driving '89 Caprice Classics back home to our double-wide. Is there something about that you don't understand fool?

Call Bar A - Sears
Call Bar B - Wal Mart

I think what you don't understand is we live in a capitalist society not a communistic society (though I hear North Korean Airlines is hiring).

 

[instructordude]

Have you stepped into the real world yet Dude, its called paying the mortgage, tuition, Gas, ect. By the way what major,if any are hiring pays 85k to start. I guess with only 3 nights a month at home it will be hard to spend 60k.

If you don't like it or can't hack it, leave and let us new generation pilots in. 60K does go along way though. And you can pay a mortage, etc.....

 

[highsky]

If you don't like it or can't hack it, leave and let us new generation pilots in. 60K does go along way though. And you can pay a mortage, etc.....

Stunning... So young and foolish.

 

[instructordude]

Stunning... So young and foolish.

About what?

 

[highsky]

Collective people like you are exactly the reason our standard of living is depressed. You are the pipsqueak at the union meeting that just doesn't seem to get what all the hubub is about.

 

[Swaayze]

Wow Instructordude,

It's great that you have a positive outlook. Unfortunately you haven't reached an age where you realize that many of us with years and years of life and aviation experience really do have a clue about what we speak. $60K sounds like a ton of money to a newbie flight instructor. I know, hell it sounds like a lot to me....until I start writing out the budget with my wife and 2 kids. You will do just fine as a single guy living in an apartment, and that's exactly how the regional jobs have been designed. The problem is that for most of us (including you) these are no longer 1-2 year FO jobs, followed by upgrade and the left seat for a couple of years and then on to the brass ring of the majors where you're set for life. Now you will stay many years at a regional, and many of them will be on the FO scale (don't let the 2 year upgrades currently occuring at a few regionals fool you, that will change). You will be much better off if you lose the attitude and adopt one that expects good pay and workrules so you can have a life if you're still at the regionals in a few years.

 

[instructordude]

Collective people like you are exactly the reason our standard of living is depressed. You are the pipsqueak at the union meeting that just doesn't seem to get what all the hubub is about.

All I said was the pay at the regional is not the problem. For someone who is 23 and just starting out, 19K per year is not bad, get a roomate and share one of those oriental cars. Better yet, live at home with mom and dad. Figure upgrade at 3-4 years and one is making 50-60K as a 27 year old. I can't sneeze at that. Then off to Fedex/Swa 3-4 years down the road at 31 years. By second year he is making 85K at 32 yrs old. Upgrade 4 years down the road and I am making 200K at the ripe old age of 36. Sign me up!

 

[Swaayze]

Good luck with that. I really hope your scenario plays out that way. It can happen but I wouldn't start planning your purchases just yet.

And BTW, pay at the regionals IS a problem. Do you think the companies farmed out all the flying to the regionals because people enjoy 3 hours in an EMB!?

 

[highsky]

All I said was the pay at the regional is not the problem. For someone who is 23 and just starting out, 19K per year is not bad, get a roomate and share one of those oriental cars. Better yet, live at home with mom and dad. Figure upgrade at 3-4 years and one is making 50-60K as a 27 year old. I can't sneeze at that. Then off to Fedex/Swa 3-4 years down the road at 31 years. By second year he is making 85K at 32 yrs old. Upgrade 4 years down the road and I am making 200K at the ripe old age of 36. Sign me up!

You have been sadly misinformed, Grasshopper.

I just don't know where to even begin with you.

 

[Palomino]

All I said was the pay at the regional is not the problem. For someone who is 23 and just starting out, 19K per year is not bad, get a roomate and share one of those oriental cars. Better yet, live at home with mom and dad. Figure upgrade at 3-4 years and one is making 50-60K as a 27 year old. I can't sneeze at that. Then off to Fedex/Swa 3-4 years down the road at 31 years. By second year he is making 85K at 32 yrs old. Upgrade 4 years down the road and I am making 200K at the ripe old age of 36. Sign me up!

9/11/01. oil price roller coaster. consolidation. bankruptcies. get to know these phenomena intimately. you'll need them whispering to you when you sign the lease for your BMW and your one room apartment.

not long ago i thought $60k was a ton of cash. then i realized the amount of revenue my services bring in and i understand what my worth is. someday your dim low-wattage bulb will gain more energy and you will see the light.

 

[100 c.i.]

If you don't like it or can't hack it, leave and let us new generation pilots in. 60K does go along way though. And you can pay a mortage, etc.....

Dude Iam only 35 and got hire at the majors at about your age, just about the same generation. GOOD LUCK, you'll see!

 

[Hpilot]

All I said was the pay at the regional is not the problem. For someone who is 23 and just starting out, 19K per year is not bad, get a roomate and share one of those oriental cars. Better yet, live at home with mom and dad. Figure upgrade at 3-4 years and one is making 50-60K as a 27 year old. I can't sneeze at that. Then off to Fedex/Swa 3-4 years down the road at 31 years. By second year he is making 85K at 32 yrs old. Upgrade 4 years down the road and I am making 200K at the ripe old age of 36. Sign me up!

Are you a plant from Kit Darby?

 

[canyonblue]

Listen quite simply Jackass canyonblue: Let's say you and I both own martini bars next door to one another. We're each charging $15 per martini, and we're driving Corvettes, living in mansions, and having a great life. Tomorrow, I decide to steal some of your business, and start charging $13. The next day, you steal them back by charging $11. Pretty quick, we're both charging $5, and driving '89 Caprice Classics back home to our double-wide. Is there something about that you don't understand fool?

Yea, you suck as a Martini Bar CEO. Thanks for proving my point, but don't worry, your employees at the Martini Bar will take it in the shorts so you can keep your Corvette. Now you understand. Jackass highsky.:smash:

 

[PositionandHold]

All I said was the pay at the regional is not the problem. For someone who is 23 and just starting out, 19K per year is not bad, get a roomate and share one of those oriental cars. Better yet, live at home with mom and dad. Figure upgrade at 3-4 years and one is making 50-60K as a 27 year old. I can't sneeze at that. Then off to Fedex/Swa 3-4 years down the road at 31 years. By second year he is making 85K at 32 yrs old. Upgrade 4 years down the road and I am making 200K at the ripe old age of 36. Sign me up!

Listen, "instructordude"... FedEx doesn't hire every pilot, plans rarely work out as planned, the industry cycles, management manages, this is the only industry where the COL trend is inversely proportional to your salary, and 50% pay cuts are currently the "norm."

And let's not b.s. each other here. 19K is sh*t money for anyone, let alone someone with a 4 year degree and trained as an airline pilot. The guys before us worked hard for standards which people with your "I can't wait till they LET me fly jets!" attitude have depressed.

Surely, nobody enters this profession with the sole purpose of making money, but it was a profession where you were compensated well for your knowledge and skill. Don't piss on that history by saying something stupid like 19K isn't bad. Not when you consider what preceded that.

 

[PositionandHold]

If you don't like it or can't hack it, leave and let us new generation pilots in. 60K does go along way though. And you can pay a mortage, etc.....

Wow I didn't see that post initially.

God forbid you represent the views of this "new generation." I don't know how to say this politely so I'm just going to say it: I'm part of this "new generation" and I think you're full of sh*t. In a dangerous way, too.

You are exactly the kind of people that we need to prevent from getting into this industry. You're an undercutter, someone who will do the same job for less because you don't value yourself or your career. You'd make out great in Bangladesh working for Dell.