US FO sticks it to FA's

[vetrider]

Either way, any west airplane operated above about 45 degrees latitude is probably an accident waiting to happen :laugh:

Good thing that FA was experienced with ice....probably saved the ex mesa FO's bacon and everyone else's. He should just thank her and move on, but instead he sues. I guess that's the American way these days.

With a combined 500 years of flying and 50 jillion hours of flight time, that highly experienced east crew should have known not to go right back to the gate after aborting, come on. "Come on, lets getting going, shove her back out..." Phoooooosh.

 

[Carl S.]

Way more to the story than what is in the article! The FAA also had some major back tracking to do when it over stepped it's self with an overly aggresssive female inspector. The media only has part of the story and both side have their versions. Ed's a good guy and the captain retired a few month's after the incident, but who is the final authority( Captain Sully!!!) the PIC!

P.S.- The clowns at USAPA and East pilots have 13 hull losses to back up their flying skills, AWA had 2 hull losses and no KIA in 23 years!

 

[Dizel8]

Either way, any west airplane operated above about 45 degrees latitude is probably an accident waiting to happen :laugh:

You are a sad, sad excuse for a human being, much less a pilot.

 

[glasspilot1]

All I can say is, Wow, what a mess!

Before Air Florida in 1982 deicing procedures were a lot more lax-a-dasical. There was only one type of fluid, there were no holdover times. Heck, engine anti-ice was Capts descretion and for some reason he didn't have it on for his T/O in the snowstorm!

Now (the F/O used these words!) you have to cover your ass! Every time! The F/A's are watching and the PAX are watching now!

A lot of us know if there is a thin (really thin) layer of frost on a small area of the wing that you could load-er up and blast off with no problems at all. But these days (even if it's your last leg and you're going home) you've GOT to cover your butt and order the deice even though with all your experience you know you are pissing away money you don't have to.

 

[St. Nic]

So let me get this straight- The FA's demand the airplane get deiced, the f/o disagrees but gets the plane deiced anyway and the dingbats in the back still call the FAA on him? That's a new definition of vendetta. The flight attendants deserve what is coming to them.

 

[kingair1]

So let me get this straight- The FA's demand the airplane get deiced, the f/o disagrees but gets the plane deiced anyway and the dingbats in the back still call the FAA on him? That's a new definition of vendetta. The flight attendants deserve what is coming to them.

Completely agree. For the FA's to call the FAA like that afterwards is cowardly. We make the decisions up there and that's final. Do the Fa's think we don't want to be safe ???

 

[get2flyin]

Either way, any west airplane operated above about 45 degrees latitude is probably an accident waiting to happen :laugh:

Good thing that FA was experienced with ice....probably saved the ex mesa FO's bacon and everyone else's. He should just thank her and move on, but instead he sues. I guess that's the American way these days.

(sigh) Ever been to Anchorage? Yeah, I didn't think you guys went there. At yet, the West has been going there for some time.

I don't know the FO, but based on what I've read here (*a notably reputable source of journalistic information) he's a d-bag. Doesn't matter WHAT company he works for.

And hey, why are you wasting your time throwing mud on FI? Isn't there a fellow West pilot you're suppose to be suing for not giving up his seat to you or something similar? Keep those checks coming to USAPA. That's going to cover the dues money I'm not responsible for. Thanks!

 

[samballs]

This reminds me of a similiar incident that happened to a friend of mine, back in this regional days. He was flying a newer E145 with still shiny leading edges, when on the approach at night pax were saying he had ice on his wings (OAT being +15C). The next day he got a call from the CP telling him that the FAA had received a complaint. Backseat drivers! Love 'em!

Is the case out of CVG to IAH, if it is please do not defend the pilot, you will look bad

 

[Bringupthebird]

It all comes down to pride. The FA's pride was hurt because her concerns (real or imagined) were dismissed. The F/O's pride was hurt because he felt countermanded by an FA (likely a senior mama know-it-all). The solution should be to hear each other out without prejudice and make a decision that is sound and communicate why you are making the decision.

You can make a million over-conservative decisions but perhaps only one hasty one.

 

[bubbers44]

Sounds like a pissing contest that went out of control.

 

[Dan Roman]

Preveous two posts nailed it.
Lousy CRM no matter who had the bigger ego though.
It's not that hard to solve any crew conflict. Usually you just have to be willing to listen and communicate with others and not let your ego get in the way (as bringingupthebird said).

 

[Green]

Either way, any west airplane operated above about 45 degrees latitude is probably an accident waiting to happen :laugh:

Good thing that FA was experienced with ice....probably saved the ex mesa FO's bacon and everyone else's. He should just thank her and move on, but instead he sues. I guess that's the American way these days.

America West has been flying into Anchorage, Toronto, Vancouver, etc for years and never killed a single passenger. How many people have died on US Airways flights??

You are an idiot.....


I think I remember that the FA in question was either married to a pilot or dating one. So obviously she was an expert on winter ops....

 

[11thHour]

We need a button up front that slams those window shutters closed. Or how bout the passengers and F/A/'s go in the belly, and the boxes get the window seats?

 

[PHXFLYR]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[BeCareful!]

Man, as usual, no sense of humor with you west guys....I even used a gdmn emoticon. Whatevvverrrr.

I do think the pissing contest out of control analogy is probably accurate. Probably no wrong doing on the pilots part, but just thought y'all could handle some lighthearted fun. I have always respected AWA crews as good aviators.

Your Internet personalities need some polish, though. Gotta see a little humor in things, Fuuuuu%$#$#!

 

[vetrider]

Sounds like a pissing contest that went out of control.

That, and I think CRM has gotten a little out of control to. I think the good has already been gotten out of CRM a long time ago, but some people have to keep adding to it and adding to it. Sometimes an overinflated sense of empowerment, aided in part by CRM out of control, can fuel an unnecessary pissing match.

 

[vetrider]

That, and I think CRM has gotten a little out of control to. I think the good has already been gotten out of CRM a long time ago, but some people have to keep adding to it and adding to it. Sometimes an overinflated sense of empowerment, aided in part by CRM out of control, can fuel an unnecessary pissing match.

The overinflated sense of empowerment I'm referring to is on the part of the fas. At times some of them like to run the show, so to speak, and overdone CRM can contribute to that.

 

[trainer8]

I can't believe this has gone on for three pages.

It's a defamation of character suit.

FAA isn't going to get involved; Company isn't going to get involved.

It's "he said, she said..."

T8

 

[hoover]

I don't see that this has anything to do with USAIR, ALPA, AFA, USAPA or anything else. This appears to me to be a dispute between individuals, both of whom happen to work for USAir.

The way I see it, the FA's were in the right to report the icing situation to the Captain. Likewise, they were in the right to report it to their employer if they felt that the Captain's response was out of line.

But when they went to the FAA, they were not employees trying to correct a situation, they were citizens questioning the rights, privileges, qualifications, and status of another citizen. This is a free country, and we can do that, but there are consequences to that action. They called into question this man's skills, qualifications, and judgement, potentially affecting his ability to earn a living. That's pretty serious stuff.

 

[Be 23]

The 'rumour' on Pprune is that one of the FA's was the FO's ex-wife. If true, it explains all of the court cases and unprofessional conduct.