US Airways Files for Bankruptcy Protection

[atafan]

Right on canyonblue!

Since when did any of the legacy carriers give even a second thought about any of the LCCs other than wanting them to go away.

Heck, most don't even know who ATA is!

 

[Publishers]

U

Industry average does not mean much if you cannot get passengers to pay to be on your aircraft at a rate that can compensate the crew. U cut the costs but failed on that second part of the equation, butts in the seats at a decent yield.


What gets me is that seems to be this thing like it is a right to make a great living flying aircraft and guaranteeing pilot pay will remain at some level.

Southwest has been able to strike a reasonable compromise until now on compensation somewhat offset by productivity and a model that puts butts in the seats. If the legacy carriers cannot immulate that approach, they will cease to be legacy except in their own minds.

 

[Full of LUV]

To heck with the bar!

I didn't realize I was holding the bar for you. I have been at SWA for almost 3 years and have felt that I have been adequately compensated, I could always take more but my pay is fair, after all the SWA business model affords no First Class and no International flying to make up for revenue shortfalls in the domestic market. If my SWA pilots before me worked for what you may call a paltry sum then you should take it up with them. Ask them why they made near bottom wages for many years and you might be surprised at the blame being placed at AA, DAL, UAL. These carriers have tried to put SWA, and those pilots before me out of a job since day one. So when you ask "What has a SWA pilot done for me lately?" Don't be surprised if they just don't give a d@mn about you or your bar.

Canyonblue and other LCC's,
Todays LCC's will be tomorrow's legacys. I would like you to print out your post frame it and look at it when you have 15 years in with SWA and start to lament about an airline that has begun to replace you. My point wasn't that you don't feel adequately compensated, obviously all employed pilots feel compensated for their current position or they would quit. Mesa feels compensated, U air pilots feel compensated etc. It's the fact that there will always be someone willing to work for less. Heck, some people even fly for free. My wife works for a company that doesn't match a cent of her 401K, why should SWA match? She doesn't get any travel benes, why should SWA. These are all costs that could reasonably be trimmed from the industry in the next decade of "bar" readjustment. Just wait until the SWA contract is due again whenever and see how generous the company will be. Its all a giant market, for both the product and labor. It really isn't the pilot profession, it is the pilot market. Now I gotta go, it's time to make the donuts.

 

[canyonblue]

That's the trouble with any "bar" scenario. SWA will pay what it can afford to pay, no more. Gary Kelly has made a point of this and trying to be "industry leading" anything is asinine unless you have the goods to back it up. Once again for the hard of hearing, we have no First Class, no international and no alliance with another airline. Just who should we compare ourselves to? For a domestic only single class, single type airline most SWA pilots feel fairly compensated. For the other "Full Service Legacy Carriers", I don't know are they fairly compensated? Ask one some time. Wasn’t it Delta that had bag stickers that said "United plus a $". Be careful what you wish for, Grinstein might just be printing those up.

And as far as:

"I would like you to print out your post frame it and look at it when you have 15 years in with SWA and start to lament about an airline that has begun to replace you."

I don't need to frame it, I already have it embroidered on a pillow in my rec room. Don't worry, at SWA we all know the history of the battles, and the Airlines that were out to kill us. Those senior guys at SWA aren’t loosing sleep over the troubles of the Legacy’s or the path they are headed. They started it, now they have to live with it.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Industry-leading contract?

Leading in which direction?

 

[vetteracer]

Bob Crandall gave the industry the B scale long before SWA was a thorn in anybody’s side other then Texas International. The list goes on and on for the decline in industry pay. I am just about finished with "Hard Landing" and recommend it to all in this industry.

It seems in form with this forum that a thread about a failing airline turns into finger pointing on our part.

Mark

 

[Lear70]

Everyone needs to read the following

Nuts! (The story about SWA and how other carriers tried to put them out of business is especially interesting).

Flying the Line Vol I and II - the ultimate guide to union negotiations at any carrier where the management/pilot relationship is less than "friendly".

Hard Landing - explains very nicely what deregulation has done to this industry.

If you haven't read those yet, taking notes and filing for future use, then QUIT BASHING OTHER AIRLINES!! Number one, it accomplishes nothing (similar to PFT - you're not going to convince anyone of anything on here 99% of the time, even if your argument is correct), Number two, an uneducated debater is going to lose, Number three, your time could be put to better use AT YOUR OWN CARRIER! Volunteer to a committee or if you want nothing to do with your union, go work at a homeless shelter or something. Make the world a better place through action, not rhetoric.

Or, alternately, you could go into politics if you like to debate all day long - CSPAN has great coverage of it... Maybe you can be the catalyst for pension reform - God knows we need it.

My mommie's calling - I have to do my chores (don't you just love when the caller I.D. comes up "xyz Airline Crew Scheduling"?) Fly safe, and try to remember we got into this because we like flying... pause for a minute in cruise at sundown, take a deep breath, and just ENJOY!

 

[CitationLover]

We are all in trouble if he starts flying 737's and the FO's are only making $25/hour.

time for some credit where it is due. we have already SHOT DOWN jo's "request" for this. mesa pilots are not your enemy.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Actually, JO proposed that the pay (for FOs) to fly the 737 would be $20.47/hour. He actually wanted the 737 pay to be the same as the regional jet pay (at least for FOs). I think it is an insult to pay a pilot that little to fly an 84 seat regional jet - not to mention a 737. Things are going to get very ugly if we see Mesa flying the 737 and paying pilots $20 an hour to do so.

 

[Beantown]

Actually, JO proposed that the pay (for FOs) to fly the 737 would be $20.47/hour. He actually wanted the 737 pay to be the same as the regional jet pay (at least for FOs). I think it is an insult to pay a pilot that little to fly an 84 seat regional jet - not to mention a 737. Things are going to get very ugly if we see Mesa flying the 737 and paying pilots $20 an hour to do so.

Wyoherkdriver, Please read the post above. Mesa pilots laughed at JO's 737 offer so you will never see this happen. Relax. -Bean