US Air?

[CRJDog]

I think you have a very legitimate point here. Using turboprops to fly short hauls around the Northeast has played an important role in the US Airways system, but the demand for it is diminishing. It would probably be very difficult for US Airways to sell operators like PSA, Piedmont, or Allegheny even if they wanted to. I personally don't think that they would WANT to at this point, since the low cost of operation with these carriers versus the mainline is probably helping to keep them alive. I still think US can make it, but its going to require some downsizing and possibly restructuring to change their targeted market.

PSA will be all jet by Sep 7. It would not be hard to sell PSA since they an asset not a liability.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

PSA will be all jet by Sep 7. It would not be hard to sell PSA since they an asset not a liability.

Again it will go back to who would want to buy the entire PSA operation. What value would it really have to anyone? As stated previously, RJ's don't have the highest market value right now either. I personally think they are being over-produced, but thats another story for another thread. Again, if downsizing is going to be done and assets are going to be sold, it will most likely be those assets which can be sold easily and have the least value to the everyday operation of US Airways. I don't think PSA is one of them. These are just my thoughts and opinions. Anyone with more inside information or economic experience feel free to correct me.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

SkyBoy, you are correct. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it (Econ 101 again) and I don't see any buyers out there for much of anything. Certainly not RJ's, which have an extremely low return on investment and of which there will be a pretty high number getting a tan soon.

Again, why would anyone else want PSA, and who could pay for it? SWA doesn't use regional affiliates, and they're the only ones with any money (and they're too cheap to buy anything anyway). Besides, I don't think anyone else would want those routes.

The only things US has that have any value would be the shuttle, BOS terminal/gates/operation, LGA and DCA slots and some int'l route authorities. An asset sale wouldn't net them much, and may trigger some loan covenants anyway.

As much as I hate to say it (and I really do) US is done and many of our bretheren will be unemployed very shortly. It saddens me, but a price must be paid for extremely poor business decisions and poor career planning.

 

[lowecur]

UAIR reprieve

Looks like they may have enough to meet the covenants if the FA's and IAM's approve the $68M deferral to the defined benefit plans. It will be close based on what kind of numbers show up on Sept 30th.

The procedes from a possible Shuttle/slots/gates sale have already been promised to GECAS to keep the 170's and CRJ's coming. The cash part of the deal is limited to $125M, with a note for the remaining money. The total value of this deal is estimated to be around $400M, which would value the note at $275. This will only be used as a last resort if they decide to go 11.

US Airways Seeks Pension Payments Delay
Monday August 16, 5:32 pm ET
By Matthew Barakat, AP Business Writer US Airways Seeks to Delay Pension Payments to Conserve Cash, Avoid Second Bankruptcy Trip


ARLINGTON, Va. (AP) -- US Airways Group Inc., which is desperately seeking new labor deals with its employees to avoid a second trip into bankruptcy, said Monday it is seeking to conserve cash by delaying required payments to its machinists' and flight attendants' pension plans.

The airline said it would ask the Internal Revenue Service for permission to defer about $68 million in funds for those plans, making those payments over the next five years, rather than the next 18 months.

The airline said the move, if approved, would not affect the monthly payments due to pensioners.

In a memo to employees, the airline said only the machinists and flight attendants are being targeted because they are the only two unions that still have a defined-benefit pension plan. Other unions, including the pilots, have a defined contribution, 401(k)-style plan.

Joe Tiberi, a spokesman for the International Association of Machinists, said union lawyers are still reviewing the airline's proposal, but that it does not appear to violate the company's collective bargaining agreement and will not affect union members' benefits.

"I don't see any cause for great alarm," Tiberi said.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

I just have to ask...why are companies like Piedmont and PSA continuing to interview and hire new pilots?

 

[blzr]

Piedmont has a horrendous attrition rate, and PSA has low pay. Hard to find pilots willing to work for either regional right now.

 

[StarChecker]

As much as I hate to say it (and I really do) US is done and many of our bretheren will be unemployed very shortly. It saddens me, but a price must be paid for extremely poor business decisions and poor career planning.

After flying with quite a few J4J guys....I have to disagree with blaming their "career planning". When these guys were hired at Airways(in 1988 for some)....it was THE place to be. They were hiring like crazy, they had 400 Airbuses on order...anyone would have made the same choice. I don't see how blaming them for not seeing 15 years into the future is appropriate.

It's been a real eye-opener flying with these guys. A good dose of reality.

 

[Nova]

SkyBoy, you are correct. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it (Econ 101 again) and I don't see any buyers out there for much of anything. Certainly not RJ's, which have an extremely low return on investment and of which there will be a pretty high number getting a tan soon.

Again, why would anyone else want PSA, and who could pay for it? SWA doesn't use regional affiliates, and they're the only ones with any money (and they're too cheap to buy anything anyway). Besides, I don't think anyone else would want those routes.

If an airline like PSA was liquidated I doubt they would try to sell it as a whole but piece it out. I agree that RJ's have a limited audience here in the US but they could easily find a seller abroad. Plus if nothing else, parking them in the desert is a possibility as they don't cost money when they don't fly. US is looking to save money, not necessarily raise money. They wouldn't have to sell their gates or infrastructure, just top paying rent on them and let each go abandoned.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

After flying with quite a few J4J guys....I have to disagree with blaming their "career planning". When these guys were hired at Airways(in 1988 for some)....it was THE place to be. They were hiring like crazy, they had 400 Airbuses on order...anyone would have made the same choice. I don't see how blaming them for not seeing 15 years into the future is appropriate.

It's been a real eye-opener flying with these guys. A good dose of reality.

I disagree, and seeing that I was flying back then while you were likely watching Saturday morning cartoons, I'll go with my observations.

It wasn't hard for anyone who could actually read an annual report, or understood anything about starting or operating a business to see that US was going to be struggling eventually. Assuming a large debt load combined with a limited route structure made it fairly obvious to anyone willing to see outside the box that something was going to happen.

Am I going to claim that I saw this happen 15 years ago, of course not. But even then US was concentrating on the NE corridor, which I felt would only support so much. There was nothing diffeentiating them from any other comapny, and that's dangerous in business.

Don't be fooled. All of you guys who think that ordering loads of new Airbii and hiring like crazy thus making a company the "it" place, have only yourself to blame. Does this mean that ATA was the hot place to be four years ago? What would you say about those guys now?

Besides, how many of those guys that you flew with were honest enough to look in the mirror. If they're like most of us flyers, then they likely feel they did no wrong, it's all management's fault.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Will PSA/Piedmont New Hires ever make it to training?

 

[N8Dogg]

I disagree, and seeing that I was flying back then while you were likely watching Saturday morning cartoons, I'll go with my observations.

It wasn't hard for anyone who could actually read an annual report, or understood anything about starting or operating a business to see that US was going to be struggling eventually. Assuming a large debt load combined with a limited route structure made it fairly obvious to anyone willing to see outside the box that something was going to happen.

Am I going to claim that I saw this happen 15 years ago, of course not. But even then US was concentrating on the NE corridor, which I felt would only support so much. There was nothing diffeentiating them from any other comapny, and that's dangerous in business.

Don't be fooled. All of you guys who think that ordering loads of new Airbii and hiring like crazy thus making a company the "it" place, have only yourself to blame. Does this mean that ATA was the hot place to be four years ago? What would you say about those guys now?

Besides, how many of those guys that you flew with were honest enough to look in the mirror. If they're like most of us flyers, then they likely feel they did no wrong, it's all management's fault.

Jungle Jet,

In 20 years what airlines WILL be at the top of the heap? Which ones should be avoided? Can I get that in writing? Maybe predicting the future is not so easy. If you do have the answers to these questions I am all ears, otherwise cut the USAir guys/gals a little slack. They made what they felt was the best decision at the time. Just my $0.02.

 

[SRJ]

If an airline like PSA was liquidated I doubt they would try to sell it as a whole but piece it out. I agree that RJ's have a limited audience here in the US but they could easily find a seller abroad. Plus if nothing else, parking them in the desert is a possibility as they don't cost money when they don't fly. US is looking to save money, not necessarily raise money. They wouldn't have to sell their gates or infrastructure, just top paying rent on them and let each go abandoned.
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How will they be able to liquidate when USAir does not own any of these RJ's yet? I thought that GE owns them until they are paid in full. Wouldn't Shuttle go first?

 

[lowecur]

How will they be able to liquidate when USAir does not own any of these RJ's yet? I thought that GE owns them until they are paid in full. Wouldn't Shuttle will go first?

If you read the 10Q, the monies from the sale of the Shuttle and other assets have already been promised to GECAS for the continued delivery of the 170's and CRJ's. This pretty much assures the continued existance of PSA and MDA at the expense of the other assets. This sale will only take place if the airline fails to meet covenants set by the ATSB. Possible gates and slots to be sold could be a limited number in LGA, BOS, and DCA.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

JungleJet,

Poor career planning? Come on. NONE OF US knows whether the decisions we made are correct until the day we turn 60.

Your statement was disgraceful.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

JungleJet,

Poor career planning? Come on. NONE OF US knows whether the decisions we made are correct until the day we turn 60.

Your statement was disgraceful.

My friend (and colleague) I feel for the situation that you are in, but please do not direct your bitterness towards me. I am not responsible for your situation, ultimately you are; regardless of the greediness or poor planning on the part of management. You made the decisions, you are to blame.

Does this mean I don't feel for any of my colleagues facing this? Of course it doesn't, hence why I make a concerted effort to hire furloughed pilots for my operation, and why I do my dam_dest to get them jobs at other corporate/fractional operators. How many furloughed colleagues have you ever given a job to? I'm at nearly 200 over the course of the past 8 years, and that number is increasing this very month.

I'll tell you what's really disgracefull, and you can take this for what you will. The absurd union created/enforced seniority number BS that forces someone to stake their entire future on one company, becasue you lack the ability to go somewhere else (and start at the bottom again) when the fit hits the shan. It's disgraceful that 10,000 hr 73 captains are forced to take JforJ jobs in a throwaway Brazillian jet becasue of where they rank on the scale. It's disgraceful that someone with your experience and training is stuck flying for an outfit like Comair. You don't deserve that, but being enslaved to a stupid number ultimately causes it. Not that ALPO, er ALPA will change it becasue they've successfully brainwashed their membership ("...management will screw you...management will screw you...Frank Lorenzo...Frank Lorenzo...").

You can hate me for what I say, but you can't argue the reality of it even if you dislike the harshness.