US AIR. the industry dark horse 2016???

[Flybywire44]

This thread is worthless.

 

[Guam360]

Wishful thinking.

USAir only brings one thing to the table for AA; more headaches.

Seen alot of power plays in my career but this one doesnt jive.

Next.

what about LGA and BOS stuff, shuttle etc? domination of N. Carolina,
and some european slots, rome, london, etc?

 

[Captzaahlie]

This thread is worthless.

Agreed.

I think the thread sums up the original question of,

" What are the odds of US AIR becoming a great place to work in the next 5 to 7 yrs?"​

​

The "monkeys throwing poop battle" (easty /westie thang) hasn't even

started yet! We will probably see that in 5,4,3,2,1...... :bomb:

 

[Captzaahlie]

"domination of N. Carolina"

WTF?

Airways once "dominated" BWI now there's

maybe one jet and one Dash 8 parked out in

never/never land. (ok I exaggerated a bit on airways BWI flt sched.).

Midway once dominated RDU too.....

 

[whymeworry?]

....Oh I forgot, 7 days of VACATION until you complete 8 YEARS OF SERVICE!!!! WTF!!

Damn. Is it that bad over there?

Boy, the USAPA folks really showed ALPA what a real union is, eh? :laugh:

 

[MCDU]

Damn. Is it that bad over there?

Boy, the USAPA folks really showed ALPA what a real union is, eh? :laugh:

I hate to break it to you, but everything the East has right now was negotiated under to old union ALPA. But you knew that?

M

 

[reepicheep]

And ratified by rank-and-file usair pilots

 

[abefly]

I hate to break it to you, but everything the East has right now was negotiated under to old union ALPA. But you knew that?

M

What exactly has USAPA done for you in the 1015 days they have been the Union for east and west? I can't think of one positive thing they have done except spend dues money on attorneys? Serious question.

 

[reepicheep]

What they have done is exactly what they were designed to do: delay as long as possible integration of east and west. They have so far got to have their cake & eat it too. East pilots currently bid by DOH and probably will for many years; a combined contract is a long way off. Once age 65 kicks in east pilots will capture all the east upgrades. All without having to deal with the arbitrated list. It's like somebody came along in 2005 and said instead of liquidating we're going to throw a bunch of money at your airline and allow it to survive pretty much as-is and you all get to keep your jobs. Better, a bunch of you that were furloughed get your jobs back.

USAPA has so far been a smashing success for the east.

 

[abefly]

What they have done is exactly what they were designed to do: delay as long as possible integration of east and west. They have so far got to have their cake & eat it too. East pilots currently bid by DOH and probably will for many years; a combined contract is a long way off. Once age 65 kicks in east pilots will capture all the east upgrades. All without having to deal with the arbitrated list. It's like somebody came along in 2005 and said instead of liquidating we're going to throw a bunch of money at your airline and allow it to survive pretty much as-is and you all get to keep your jobs. Better, a bunch of you that were furloughed get your jobs back.

USAPA has so far been a smashing success for the east.

Even though they have the worst contract known to man and the lowest wages in the industry? I hardly see that as a success and I bet the majority of pilots on the East agree. USAPA is a complete failure and a joke union. They have no pull. There negotiating team is a bunch of idiots. Cleary needs to be in a mad house.

 

[reepicheep]

I think if you conducted a poll you would find that the vast majority are content to remain under LOA 93 if it means no Nic.

 

[abefly]

I think if you conducted a poll you would find that the vast majority are content to remain under LOA 93 if it means no Nic.

Call your reps and ask them to do a poll asking that. A raise to say 170 an hour with the nic or 124 an hour and loa 93. Id like to see what the majority wants when it comes to a 45k dollar pay raise.

 

[Bringupthebird]

What they have done is exactly what they were designed to do: delay as long as possible integration of east and west. They have so far got to have their cake & eat it too. East pilots currently bid by DOH and probably will for many years; a combined contract is a long way off. Once age 65 kicks in east pilots will capture all the east upgrades. All without having to deal with the arbitrated list. It's like somebody came along in 2005 and said instead of liquidating we're going to throw a bunch of money at your airline and allow it to survive pretty much as-is and you all get to keep your jobs. Better, a bunch of you that were furloughed get your jobs back.

USAPA has so far been a smashing success for the east.

And the west pilots should be forced to pay (under penalty of job termination) to support this WHY?

 

[bailey3083]

The one thing everyone is forgetting is there are loads of kids at the regionals who look at US Airways as a step up and are happy to take the job in a heartbeat.

 

[Carl S.]

East pilots could have just kept voting no on any contract that kept coming out to vote and had a real union at work for true pilot issues( not ALPA only) and maintain a level above thug in the industry! The AFO's at AAA were scared to get a vote out and want maintain the seperate ops. at all costs, so enjoy LOA 93 and all the right seat retirements that come with seperate ops. DOH will only keep you terrible exsistance going on till BK rewrites the story.

 

[reepicheep]

Call your reps and ask them to do a poll asking that. A raise to say 170 an hour with the nic or 124 an hour and loa 93. Id like to see what the majority wants when it comes to a 45k dollar pay raise.

There is not going to be any 170/hr. offer to vote on 'cause their regional airline route structure cannot generate the total revenue needed to support those rates. They need the current rates just to keep their heads above water, even now when the industry is supposedly riding high. Anyway, to get to a T/A and run the whole thing through the myriad of legal challenges that are going to arise, you're looking at years and years to actually implement anything.

 

[Tweaker]

Their heads are far above water, as teh management compensation and 2nd highest profit EVAR in 2010 plainly indicate.

 

[ackattacker]

Given last year's financials, LCC could have paid each pilot an extra $80 grand and still turned a profit.

 

[PHXFLYR]

The one thing everyone is forgetting is there are loads of kids at the regionals who look at US Airways as a step up and are happy to take the job in a heartbeat.

Feel free to show them the PM I sent you a few weeks ago. That should show them the reality of the situation we are dealing with here. Honestly, if I where a senior RJ skipper at a decent regional like Skywest, Horizon, Air Wisconsin ,and maybe a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head; I would just sit tight, enjoy my seniority and wait for the age 65 retirements to start in a few years. Once that starts, re- access the playing field with regards to who's hiring and then go from there.

Given the caustic relationship between the 2 pilot groups,non existent pay and benefits both east and west, especially when compared to recently inked agreements at Air Tran and Spirit; plus an in -house "union " that gives new meaning to the word "Useless" ; USAirways wouldn't even be on my radar screen. This from someone who works there.


PHXFLYR / ex AWA

 

[Bringupthebird]

The one thing everyone is forgetting is there are loads of kids at the regionals who look at US Airways as a step up and are happy to take the job in a heartbeat.

Can you keep a secret? This is exactly what Doug Parker wants USAir to be - a hybrid: the jets and route structure of a major with the low pay and turnover of a regional. Just don't tell the east that that is what their vaunted USAirways has become. They might get mad and carry out a progrom, er, I mean form a union .

 

[PHXFLYR]

Bingo !!!!

Phxflyr

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I hate to break it to you, but everything the East has right now was negotiated under to old union ALPA. But you knew that?

M

I hate to break it to you, but that useless union your boyfriend (st. nic) works for, hasn't done a thing since it's been in place.
But they have done a fine job of keeping the status quo and keeping the lawyers and courts tied up.

 

[B-atch]

.........And soo far beaten the West at their game....

 

[say again]

.........And soo far beaten the West at their game....

Hahahahahahahahaha!!! You east guys are pathetic. Good luck with your sh!tty airline, crap pay, no pension pilot career. DOH will die soon, prepare yourself.

 

[B-atch]

I thought the WEST had reached the end of the line. Didn't the US Supreme Court deny YOUR appeal? If you guys had a CLUE, you would support USAPA in securing a better contract for ALL LCC pilots. Up to and including a strike. Then , and only then, could you be free to file DFR #2!! You get it, you must first cross the bridge to get to the other side!!!

But I guess it makes to much sense....
The WEST is totally content with the EAST pilots pathetic BK contract. It brings them pleasure to know that LOA 93 inflicts tremendous damage, not only on the EAST pilot group, but on the entire industry.

The WEST is willing to hold on to the Nic award at ALL cost. Even if it guarantees the infinity of THEIR pathetic contract!! This in itself proves how much of a WINDFALL the Nic award IS.........

 

[Guppiedriver]

I thought the WEST had reached the end of the line. Didn't the US Supreme Court deny YOUR appeal? If you guys had a CLUE, you would support USAPA in securing a better contract for ALL LCC pilots. Up to and including a strike. Then , and only then, could you be free to file DFR #2!! You get it, you must first cross the bridge to get to the other side!!!

But I guess it makes to much sense....
The WEST is totally content with the EAST pilots pathetic BK contract. It brings them pleasure to know that LOA 93 inflicts tremendous damage, not only on the EAST pilot group, but on the entire industry.

The WEST is willing to hold on to the Nic award at ALL cost. Even if it guarantees the infinity of THEIR pathetic contract!! This in itself proves how much of a WINDFALL the Nic award IS.........

Holy s h i t! You must be pretty desperate.....you posted this on at least three different threads!

You conveniently seem to forget that the east created this mess. The east pilots chose to hand over the seniority dispute to a neutral arbitrator. The east pilots hand picked the arbitrator. The east pilots didn't like the outcome of the arbitration, so the east pilots asked for a Mulligan. The Mulligan was denied, so the east pilots threw ALPA off of the property and inserted USAPA.

The east pilots wanted an arbitrator to settle our seniority dispute....the west pilots are here to ensure that you get your wish. Please explain to me where the west pilots are at fault here.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Holy s h i t! You must be pretty desperate.....you posted this on at least three different threads!

You conveniently seem to forget that the east created this mess. The east pilots chose to hand over the seniority dispute to a neutral arbitrator. The east pilots hand picked the arbitrator. The east pilots didn't like the outcome of the arbitration, so the east pilots asked for a Mulligan. The Mulligan was denied, so the east pilots threw ALPA off of the property and inserted USAPA.

The east pilots wanted an arbitrator to settle our seniority dispute....the west pilots are here to ensure that you get your wish. Please explain to me where the west pilots are at fault here.

You forgot to mention one fact. During the arbitration , George Nicolau called both parties back into his chambers after both sides presented their case. He said he had a list drawn up and that neither side would be happy with the results . So rather than release the list, he gave both sides 10 additional days to reach an agreement. I was told by our merger commitee chairman that this alone was/is unprecedented in binding arbitration. !0 days later, we all return to Nicolau's office. The west negotiators made some movement, while the east group through their lawyer Katz announce "We are comfortable with our original position of DOH ; No change. " Nicolau releases the list a day or so later, followed by the east meltdown, the decertification of ALPA and the creation of USAPA


It's sort of ironic that it was the east merger comittee that first requested arbitration and it was the east merger comittee that selected Nicolau.

It's also been somewhat "entertaining " in a morbid sort of way watching all the various methods the east pilots have used over the last several years to shoot themselves in the foot while the industry moves forward with new contracts that include significant improvements in pay,workrules and benefits.

Even if USAPA succeeds in delaying the implementaion of the NIC list ,their one and only reason for their creation by the way, it still won't change the fact that the east pilots, regardless of the seat they sit in or the airplane they fly,will be the lowest paid pilots in the US, bar none for a very long time. And the truly bizarre thing in all this ? As long as they get that seat ,they really don't care.

A pyrhic victory at best..

PHXFLYR

 

[B-atch]

Holy s h i t! You must be pretty desperate.....you posted this on at least three different threads!

You conveniently seem to forget that the east created this mess. The east pilots chose to hand over the seniority dispute to a neutral arbitrator. The east pilots hand picked the arbitrator. The east pilots didn't like the outcome of the arbitration, so the east pilots asked for a Mulligan. The Mulligan was denied, so the east pilots threw ALPA off of the property and inserted USAPA.

The east pilots wanted an arbitrator to settle our seniority dispute....the west pilots are here to ensure that you get your wish. Please explain to me where the west pilots are at fault here.

Nope, just tired of reading the same OLD crap WEST rhetoric....My response is one size. and it fits all!!

 

[TWA Dude]

Nope, just tired of reading the same OLD crap WEST rhetoric...

Best get used to it because it won't stop until the East ends the war against the arbitrated seniority list.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Nope, just tired of reading the same OLD crap WEST rhetoric....My response is one size. and it fits all!!

Like I said, you're desperate.