US Air furlough/recall survey......

[LearLove]

anyone complete the furlough/recall survey?

my answers:

1a) definately - (like I have anything else better going on)
2a) within 30

1b) definately - (same as 1a)
2b) within 30

1a and b were for the ab/boeing and 2 a and b were for the 190.

Apparently there will be a bid out in june for sept for more recalls to the ab/boeing and included will be the first positions for the 190 which will be checkairman. Also word on the street is they will have to do the whole cert process again for the 190. Yep, thats US Air, makin the good decisions always.

 

[DougsRule]

What Survey?

 

[Capn Mike]

What Survey?

Sent to furloughed US Airways pilots to determine their intentions about recall.

Mike

 

[Swaayze]

Answered "not sure" for 190 and 1 yr. "Probably" for AB/73 and delay (wrote in caveat of "when lineholder").

Survey a little thin but at least he's trying to get us some info.

 

[FR8mastr]

It's nice to see someone is planning for somthing. Even if its just for gathering data, it is foward thinking. That is new!!

 

[BenderGonzales]

Answered "no" for the E190 (there wasn't an option for "stick it up your ___").

Answered "possibly" for the Boeing/Airbus with the "delay as long as possible" option.

 

[rayford steele]

anyone complete the furlough/recall survey?

Apparently there will be a bid out in june for sept for more recalls to the ab/boeing and included will be the first positions for the 190 which will be checkairman. Also word on the street is they will have to do the whole cert process again for the 190. Yep, thats US Air, makin the good decisions always.

Could anyone post or PM the furlough administrato's e-mail address? Thanks.

 

[DougsRule]

Huh? I didn't get the survey...when did it come out? And can I still get into it.

 

[johnsonrod]

Any guesses on where the E190s would primarily fly from - at least initially? PHX? PHL? CLT? Obviously that could impact peoples' decisions to bid the aircraft. Although I hear it's nice to fly.........

 

[BenderGonzales]

I don't care if it flies nicer than the Starship Enterprise. Those payrates aren't even worth the hassle of driving to the airport.

 

[Saabslime]

Most if not all the 190's will be flying out of PHL. The company is probably going to have to hire off the street for right seat positions in the 190. I doubt any furloughed guys would want it and it's to big of a paycut for any on the active list.

 

[johnsonrod]

Most if not all the 190's will be flying out of PHL. The company is probably going to have to hire off the street for right seat positions in the 190. I doubt any furloughed guys would want it and it's to big of a paycut for any on the active list.

Again, how many 190s on order/option and by when? Thanks!

 

[DougsRule]

Most if not all the 190's will be flying out of PHL. The company is probably going to have to hire off the street for right seat positions in the 190. I doubt any furloughed guys would want it and it's to big of a paycut for any on the active list.

Don't be so sure.

We've got 1500 some odd guys on furlough. 300 or so at J For J and 500 to 600 at Airtran, Jetblue and Southwest. Assuming the JFJ guys will go back that leaves 900 to 1000 or so to be recalled.

Realisticly, probably maybe 3/4 will go back. At the current bypass rate of 4 to 1 it may take 6 months or so to call back all furloughed guys who want to come back. (If the class size is 30.)

Just my thinking on the recall. Anybody got any thoughts?

 

[alaskaplt]

Is it likely that some would come back and fly anything because being on property when the seniority merger occurs could be beneficial?

 

[BenderGonzales]

I think that 3/4ths returning would be extremely optomistic. Most have been furloughed since 01 or early 02. That's four years to find work, move (if required) and build a life.

Speaking as a 1999 hire, returning to the bottom of the combined list to be furlough-insurance for an America West pilot hired in 2005 does not sound particularly appealing.

The E190 rates are simply the icing on the cake. I don't know what the J4J guys are getting paid at their respective companies, but I honestly can not imagine more than a handful accepting the F/O position on the E190.

Then again, I thought the J4J program was a joke as well and didn't expect many people to take advantage of it.... but there they are.

 

[RUhiring?]

Is it likely that some would come back and fly anything because being on property when the seniority merger occurs could be beneficial?

No....the snapshot date has already passed. Even if all of the furloughees return to work tomorrow, when the arbitration is underway, we will all still be considered "furloughed" pilots. The snapshot is the picture of the two airlines on a specific date. They have to start somewhere, so they pick a date and take those numbers.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Wow Bender, why all the anger? Would you go back as Captain on the 190?

 

[zonker]

I didn't see any anger. Seemed like a pretty reasonable post to me.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Grog,

I do not feel any anger at all. I just don't see the justification for those payrates on what is, essentially, a replacement for the DC9, F100, and F28.

No, I would not return for the 190 Captain position either. As I mentioned I will consider returning for an Airbus or Boeing position but will want to delay as long as possible.

It really depends on payrates, work-rules, position on the combined seniority list, retirement, etc. There are lots of variables to consider. A lot of time has passed and when looking at this decision, we must be objective.

Would accepting recall be an intelligent career decision? Can they provide me with the lifestyle, security, and retirement that I felt they offered in 1999?

So i'm sorry if I came across as angry. That was not my intent.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

No worries, I think everyone agrees that the 190 rates are low, I think the intent was to get the 190's on property and then try and negotiate a rate with the new cotract. Better we get control before Mesa flies 'em for even less...

I also agree, the QOL you had at Airways in '99 no longer exists at the new USAirways; hopefully the combined pilot group can get over the us vs them mentality, get its colllective shlt together and work towards all that Airways had before BK. I think its time to retake some that was given so that senior mgmnt could bail out multi-millionaires.

In any case, I look forward to having you back on property. We all know the arbitration will leave some sort of relative seniority, but at least you'd come back at your time on property pay rate.

I just hope it works out for all of us.

Good luck.

 

[gcsass]

No worries, I think everyone agrees that the 190 rates are low, I think the intent was to get the 190's on property and then try and negotiate a rate with the new cotract.

I think I have heard that before.....the E-170's are ringing a bell....

As for those J for J slots....I took one because I needed the PIC to seek greener pastures....it paid off!!

As grog said....good luck to all of you

 

[typhoonpilot]

I wouldn't participate in the survey as it is my understanding that the results will be used by the Merger Committee. Under no circumstances should they use any information of that kind in determining a position from which to bargain. They need to do the best for everyone on the list, whether those people intend to return or not.


TP

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Typhoonpilot; I absolutely agree.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I have no doubt that there will be some sort of relative seniority / slotted integration / fences for those who were on the property before 1999.

I have absolutely NO CONFIDENCE in ALPA to fight for any credit whatsoever for those hired in 1999 and beyond. I would expect a staple. Just my opinion, I have no inside info or anything, just don't trust ALPO.

(Nothing against the AWA guys, I am sure they're fighting extremely hard to fortify their position. I'd expect nothing less.)

 

[Green]

Forget 1999, I would expect a staple for anyone furloughed period. All the US Airways guys were out of a job. Tragic yes but that was the reality of the situation. Putting them ahead of a single AWA pilot would not.....

-Maintain or improve premerger status
-Protect carreer expectations

 

[DougsRule]

One factor to consider is what is the retirement rate of the combined seniority lists. I know that in the coming 5 years or so 50% or more of the USAir guys will be gone.

What's the outlook for the AWA list?

 

[ASH]

I also wanted to piggy-back on that question. I was under the impression that 90+% of the US crews are over 50 years of age. After being combined with America West, this still leaves vast retirements. Are we looking at Continental type hiring in the next few years over there? What is the projected need for pilots over the next five years at the new US?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

It all depends on the retirement age that ICAO is going to in Nov. If the US follows suit (and it looks like it will), I think a lot of USAir's elder statesmen might stick around for a while since they're pensions got raided by the F**kers that ran the show before.

Things are going to get very interesting in the next few months.

 

[TWA Dude]

AWA has around 30 to 50 retirements a year.

I do believe USAir's more rapid rate of retirement should be accounted for and I believe it will. That's part of the four ALPA merger policy tenets.

 

[m80drvr]

Doug your retirement numbers numbers are not accurate, in 5 years Airways will retire about 22% of their pilots fifty percent is not reached until about 2015. Those are inpressive numbers but still FAR from 50% in 5 years.

That does not take into consideration changing the age 60 rule that will most likely change in the next few years. Not to mention the class action lawsuit that will be filed by the pilots that were younger than 65 that had to retire. I'm sure some lawyer and the ACLU will take up that case. If those guys come back their will be HUGE furloughs in the future. Believe me it can happen. It just takes a good lawyer and a sympathetic judge.

My point is that with all the uncertainty of what will happen with the retirements in the future I don't think the arbitrator will weigh that very heavily, but who knows stranger things have happened

good luck to all.