US Air, AMR Merger "within weeks"

[Varmint]

i've been on military leave taking care of more important business.i see that you have nearly 2000 posts ...speaks volumes of what you are doing on your free time

burnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.........lol

 

[Bringupthebird]

I've been on military leave taking care of more important business.I See that you have nearly 2000 posts ...speaks volumes of what you are doing on your free time

I agree, quite important. When you get back we'll get you up to speed. Don't forget the principles you were sent to defend.

 

[MCDU]

I agree, quite important. When you get back we'll get you up to speed. Don't forget the principles you were sent to defend.

Hey Jurk,
You have no principles. You did not have them at Waterski and you do not have them now. We all know about all those check ride busts at trans states.

M

 

[MCDU]

Oh retard-andy is lurking.
The poster child for PFT. He forked out thousands to fly for COEX.

M

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hey Jurk,
You have no principles. You did not have them at Waterski and you do not have them now. We all know about all those check ride busts at trans states.

M

Different J-41 operator, but thanks for playing...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Enjoy that Nic/APA SLI there Mr. Mcdoo-doo. Gonna giggle my a$& off.

 

[Turtle21]

Hey Mesa grande boy! Why do you keep trashing threads with your drivel??

You ever see a bird that doesn't produce droppings in its own cage? :lol:

 

[IBNAV8R]

My prediction, APA will out-USAPA USAPA.

Enjoy.

 

[Bringupthebird]

My prediction, APA will out-USAPA USAPA.

Enjoy.

No, APA will show USAPA how a union should be run. What irritates me me about USAPA is not their ruthlessness, but their stupidity. No one respects a stone-cold gangsta that keeps shooting himself in the foot.

 

[brokedash]

The only thing holding up this mereger is reportedly Horton's ego and his not wanting to relinquish control of the empire to Drunken Dougie and crew.

 

[Dornier 335]

speaking of ego ...

(Reuters) - As US Airways Group Inc (LCC.N) and American Airlines parent AMR Corp (AAMRQ.PK) hammer out the final details of a merger, one of the most thorny issues has been whether AMR Chief Executive Tom Horton stays or goes.


After rebuffing an aggressive takeover push from smaller rival US Airways early in its bankruptcy, AMR of late has embraced a deal, but is now eyeing a high-level position for Horton in the merged airline, according to several people familiar with the matter.
With US Airways CEO Doug Parker angling to become both chief executive and chairman of the new company, AMR has proposed splitting the roles and making Horton chairman of the board should Parker become CEO, the people said.
The AMR board has a high regard for Horton, who has spearheaded bankruptcy restructuring, but the airline's unions and creditors are wary of his rocky relationship with labor, as is US Airways, itself no stranger to bankruptcy, according to the people familiar with the matter.
There is also concern that splitting up the chairman and chief executive roles would create a strategic clash at the top at a time when the newly merged airline should embark on a major transformation, they said.
The carriers are still negotiating management structure and no decisions have been made about who will run a merged airline, the people said. But Horton's fate has proved to be one of the major sticking points of the negotiations.
They people asked not to be named because the matter is not public. AMR and US Airways declined to comment for the story.
"I think it's very hard to predict how things will ultimately pan out," said one of the people close to the situation. "Tom is making the strongest push he can for some role coming out of this, but people are very concerned for creating a dynamic that might create chaos or disharmony."
LABOR A CRUCIAL VOICE
In many merger deals, the chairman and CEO roles are split between the two former heads of the merging entities.
But in a potential US Airways-AMR merger, any leadership role for Horton would likely face tough resistance from AMR's unionized workers, industry analysts said.
The unions representing American's pilots, flight attendants and ground workers threw their support behind a potential merger with US Airways last year, saying Parker's team would save more jobs than a plan by AMR to reorganize as an independent carrier.
AMR's three labor unions are members of its unsecured creditors committee in bankruptcy and each have a say in how the airline will restructure.
The three labor unions, as well as AMR's creditors' committee, declined to comment for this story. A lawyer for a separate committee of AMR bondholders, which is involved in the merger talks, did not respond to requests for comment.
"There's been a really toxic relationship" between labor and AMR management, said Robert Mann, an airline consultant in Port Washington, N.Y.
"That is what drove labor's interest in a US Air deal. That's what driven a variety of interested parties to advise AMR labor that there would be changes."
American Airlines has had a bitter history with its unions dating back at least to 2003, when it won steep concessions from labor as a way of avoiding bankruptcy. AMR had been locked in fruitless labor talks with unions for years before it filed for bankruptcy in late 2011.
"There's such angst over a continuing role by some of the current AMR managers that, if they were to continue in an operating role, that would likely disappoint some of the folks who believe they have been promised a change," Mann said.
Last May, more than 90 percent of American's pilots represented by the Allied Pilots Association union signed a petition expressing "no confidence" in Horton's ability to lead the company to a better path.
Meanwhile, AMR's ownership of a luxury townhouse in London drew criticism from the Transport Workers Union that represents AMR's baggage handlers and other ground workers, which said it showed how management enjoyed excesses as workers suffered.
American got court permission to sell the $23 million house earlier this year.
US Airways has not had the smoothest labor relations either. Pilots and flight attendants at the carrier have been working under the same contracts they had when the airline merged with America West in 2005.
But just last week, US Airways announced a tentative agreement with the Association of Flight Attendants that would provide pay raises and job protections for the airline's 6,800 flight attendants.
If approved, the tentative agreement would combine the contracts of the pre-merger America West and pre-merger US Airways workers. Flight attendant union leaders at US Airways urged ratification of the pact and issued a statement endorsing Parker's plan for a merger with American.

 

[Dornier 335]

No, APA will show USAPA how a union should be run. What irritates me me about USAPA is not their ruthlessness, but their stupidity. No one respects a stone-cold gangsta that keeps shooting himself in the foot.

Why didn't you choose to change/participate in USAPA, instead of venting your bare anger on this board?

You earn the right to complain by doing something about the problem.

 

[Carl S.]

USAPA was created for East pilots only...The West pilots are just minded so LMRDA rights are not totally disreguarded. Read USAPA's CB&l's, right after DOH comes safety, do you think West pilots want part of their destruction by DOH jihadists?

 

[ackattacker]

My friend at AA has said to me that APA already plans on using the Nic for the SLI.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how APA gets to choose which seniority list USAPA presents. Yes, they can get single carrier status and become the overall bargaining agent for the pilot group, but under M-B USAPA remains the bargaining agent for LCC pilots for the purposes of seniority integration. It's not the same legal landscape as when USAPA took over from ALPA.

Beyond that, for APA to express preference for the Nic would be shooting themselves in the foot, for two reasons:

a) The Nic puts the comparatively young West pilots more senior on the LCC list. Which puts them more senior on a combined LCC/AMR list. Which hurts the advancement prospects of current AMR pilots.

b) The Nic puts 2005 furloughed East pilots on the bottom. AMR has pilots on furlough... expressing preference for the Nic implies that they would be OK with putting their own furloughees on the bottom. Again, hurting the AMR pilot group.

USAPA (again my understanding) is Constitutionally bound to fight for DOH with fences and adjustments for length of service.

Using the USAPA methodology in a seniority integration between LCC and AMR would be fairly beneficial to the AMR pilot group (again my understanding) due to the relative age of AMR pilots (especially compared to the West) and their own furloughees.

With that in mind, it is easy for me to imagine a scenario where USAPA and AMR reps reach agreement during mediated negotations to use DOH (with fences, seat protection, and LOS adjustments), and it never goes to arbitration.

I'm sure I'm inviting all kinds of personal attacks by posting this, but that's just how I see it. I have no big dog in this fight, in fact if the scenario plays out how I predict I will actually lose ground vs. using the Nic.

 

[humveedriver]

I think all the USair pilots should be stapled to the bottom of a combined list for dragging this mess out as long as you have, at your bankruptcy pay scales . SWA/AT may not have been perfect, but we negotiated for a year, said no once, and 3 months later passed a deal and moved on, except for meaningless banter on this board. If any pilot can explain to me how the US/AWA SLI fight has been worth it, I would love to hear the explanation.

 

[ackattacker]

I think all the USair pilots should be stapled to the bottom of a combined list for dragging this mess out as long as you have, at your bankruptcy pay scales . SWA/AT may not have been perfect, but we negotiated for a year, said no once, and 3 months later passed a deal and moved on, except for meaningless banter on this board. If any pilot can explain to me how the US/AWA SLI fight has been worth it, I would love to hear the explanation.

I suppose if you think the SWA/AT deal was a good example of how to do a merger, then a staple job is right up your alley. Throw in a bait and switch for good measure, and there's a position waiting for you at APA. Just ask the TWA pilots.

I won't defend the US/AWA fight. It's been bad for both groups and the industry as a whole. However certainly everyone had a self-serving justification for the actions they took. I see no moral high ground anywhere among any pilot group.

 

[humveedriver]

I suppose if you think the SWA/AT deal was a good example of how to do a merger, then a staple job is right up your alley. Throw in a bait and switch for good measure, and there's a position waiting for you at APA. Just ask the TWA pilots.

I won't defend the US/AWA fight. It's been bad for both groups and the industry as a whole. However certainly everyone had a self-serving justification for the actions they took. I see no moral high ground anywhere among any pilot group.

From a SLI, career expectation standpoint, there is no such thing as good merger. There are no examples. There is no way to make everyone a winner. The staple remark was tongue in cheek. It sucks. Almost all of us have gone through it now except for Allegiant, Spirit and Jblue. That was my turning point. When I realized "hey, get over it,. Everyone has been through this ringer at some point". Certainly many US Air guys have been through it before. So how is it worth short changing your retirement with so few years left. Doesn't make sense. But if they aren't going to figure it out for themselves, I don't feel sorry for them.

 

[TWA Dude]

If any pilot can explain to me how the US/AWA SLI fight has been worth it, I would love to hear the explanation.

I'll try.
When two pilot groups agree to have a dispute settled by an arbitrator that result should be binding. If the West gives in to the East's treachery we'd be setting a precedent that arbitration can be disregarded when one side is numerically superior. This isn't just a fight worth fighting, it's a fight that must be fought.

 

[gutshotdraw]

It seems to me that any SLI between LCC and AMR will end up in arbitration. More likely this time it will be a panel of arbitrators rather than only one. But they all come from the same "club."

Do you think for a second that the new arbitrators will discard the list created and ordered by another member of their "club"? If they disregard the Nic, it would be as if they are telling labor groups everywhere "no worries, ignore our work, we don't matter" and slitting the professional throat of every labor arbitrator in the country.

I just don't see an arbitrated list at the "new" American that doesn't use the Nic to represent LCC in the integration.

 

[ackattacker]

It seems to me that any SLI between LCC and AMR will end up in arbitration. More likely this time it will be a panel of arbitrators rather than only one. But they all come from the same "club."

Do you think for a second that the new arbitrators will discard the list created and ordered by another member of their "club"? If they disregard the Nic, it would be as if they are telling labor groups everywhere "no worries, ignore our work, we don't matter" and slitting the professional throat of every labor arbitrator in the country.

I just don't see an arbitrated list at the "new" American that doesn't use the Nic to represent LCC in the integration.

You may be right about the arbitrators, but I don't think it's at all a foregone conclusion that the SLI integration goes to arbitration. USAPA and APA both have good reasons to try to keep it out of arbitration, so they may very well come to a negotiated agreement. If the arbitrators use the methodology from the NIC, it screws both East pilots and certain AA pilots. Then West sues for DFR and we get to see how that goes... a few years down the road.