UPT Scandal

[SIG600]

Everyone I know has been a part of "cooperate to graduate," but this went beyond that. Guys I talk to say that only a certain number of dudes had the "gouge" (read: actual test), and that it was kept from other people in the flight/class. Not cool, if you ask me.

In the end it may have saved those that didn't have it from what it sounds like, either way though thats a pretty douche bag move. Those are the same guys that will stab you in the back later to further their career.

We had a guy like that in our neighboring squadron. A complete tool, and would pull the same crap. You can bet the RAG (same thing as RTU) knew who he was before he walked in the door.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

What student/IP relationship are we talking about? Was it dating each other? That would be bad. I wouldn't have allowed that in my flt.

From what I've heard, I don't think the Flight/CC knew about the relationship.

 

[Phrogboy]

I just left Vance UPT as a FWQ and I was not impressed with the leadership in AETC. The CC seemed to lack any real connection to the studs, so I am not surprised to hear about another CC hangin his squadron members out to dry. I honestly feel the leadership in AETC does not lead by example, rather they micromanage and problem solve. Here's an example, the CC put the entire squadron on probation for 3 weeks (myself included) due to 3 alcohol related incidents. They were all minor incidences however, the last one being a student who was arrested for carrying a beer bottle out of a bar while talking on his cell phone!! The police arrested him and then dropped the charges. I would have liked to have seen at least the CC sticking up for the students and not drawing the line in the sand for something so minor.

The punishment should always fit the crime, and in this case, it seems there is a grave injustice. EPQ's are nothing more than UPT hazing and that should reflect in the punishment.

 

[pkober]

Phrog,

Congrats on graduating.

Welcome to the PC Air Force. You have now joined an organization that is more concerned with disco belts than fighting wars.

Good luck

CLAMBAKE

 

[talondriver]

I just left Vance UPT as a FWQ and I was not impressed with the leadership in AETC. The CC seemed to lack any real connection to the studs, so I am not surprised to hear about another CC hangin his squadron members out to dry. I honestly feel the leadership in AETC does not lead by example, rather they micromanage and problem solve. Here's an example, the CC put the entire squadron on probation for 3 weeks (myself included) due to 3 alcohol related incidents. They were all minor incidences however, the last one being a student who was arrested for carrying a beer bottle out of a bar while talking on his cell phone!! The police arrested him and then dropped the charges. I would have liked to have seen at least the CC sticking up for the students and not drawing the line in the sand for something so minor.

The punishment should always fit the crime, and in this case, it seems there is a grave injustice. EPQ's are nothing more than UPT hazing and that should reflect in the punishment.

Sounds a lot like a end of course critique in the PC AF.

Don't let your experience with your first commanders affect your views of the AF. There are plenty of awesome commanders out there. I hope you get the honor of serving under one soon.
I've seen worse alcohol situations with studs where the punishment was lighter than yours. Apparently, one of 3 "minor" incidents pushed him past his breaking point and you suffered. But 3?????? Sounds like a trend. I hope you're clued in to the same info your CC got when he made the call.

 

[J D]

Force Shaping

Most former Studs/FAIPS would not recognize todays UPT. Current poilcy...if SIE/DOR you are out of the AF period and have will to pay back any scholarship/Academy costs. If you wash out, you are out...(with limited exceptions). But at least you wont have to pay back any money. Made it very easy for the AF to take the hard line with these guys.

 

[AA717driver]

You have a bunch of intelligent, motivated twenty-something people with mostly a "frat-boy" mentality (that is a compliment, mind you) under pressure to perform and monitored, more or less, closely most of the time.

Taking advantage of ANY opportunity to make a boring task (ground school) easier is not only understandable, it's admirable. They still have to fly the plane and know how the systems function.

In the civilian world (unfortunately my only experience) we did the same thing in airline newhire ground school. We did what we could to "enhance" our chances of passing the tests--whatever it took.

Sounds like BS to me and a waste of my tax money. AND a morale buster which is even worse. I hope they get back in training.TC

 

[KCPilot]

The “study material” is what helped me pass my EPQs. I’m not one that is good at testing, so when it came to the “study material” that helped me through the hazing process. But it also helps to have the right stuff too since one week failed 2 in a row and had to talked with the DO. I did pass the 3rd one since I RTFQ. I came close to washing back that week, but in the end I graduated on time and took 3 of the top awards except of course the academics one (go figure). The EPQs in my mind are nothing more than a haze, but some feel they are necessary, just like some of the other crap we do in the AF!

 

[Phrogboy]

Talon, I agree 100% that there are good leaders out there and I have served under many of them. You are right about the critique comment, and my comments would have made it into one had one been given to me.
Unfortunately, it is a political world we live in and I have personally seen worse things happen to good people in order to "make an example". It just sucks to see or hear about kids losing their dream shots just for being kids (sorry, for lack of a better line). I just was not impressed with the "small picture" mentallity of AETC. Just my 2 cents.

 

[talondriver]

I just was not impressed with the "small picture" mentallity of AETC. Just my 2 cents.

I understand. I usually blame it on the FAIPs .