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Upt and T37

kc135ang

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Jan 15, 2002
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Does anyone know where to get some info on the t37. No one at the base has it or actually can find it.
 

Yahtzee

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UPT Prep

Check out this site.

www.uptprep.com

http://www.uptprep.com/Study/T-37/index.htm

Specifically, look at the study materials

This site has also "gouge".

As a SUPT Instructor, we understand gouge is all over the internet.

This is a good site, but be a man and take the road less traveled and avoid the gouge. You will be tempted now, and that was not my intention my offering you this site.

Consider this: you are hungry and someone offers you an apple with one bad spot. Don't throw away the apple, just bite it the good spots, and not the spoiled ones (the gouge.)

I went through UPT without any gouge and worked my ass off. It made me a better pilot. There are many students who just study the gouge, and they struggle in UPT. UPT is tough, and no amount of gouge can replace a good work effort that is focused.

Remember you are an officer first, then a pilot.

If I remember the line, it is something like this:

"Bud, a man looks into an abyss and sees nothing looking back; and that is the only thing that keeps him out of the abyss." Hal Holbrook from the movie "Wall Street"

Good Luck in UPT.
 

RichO

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Feb 15, 2002
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enough
Gouge

Hmm, well, I would say study the ops limits and boldface no one can justify giving you a bad time for study those two things............Gouge never hurts anyone, except at this stage of the game, you might not understand what the gouge is refering too.......
 

OPIE01

Coffee Break is over!
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God helps those who help themselves

After 20 years of flying for the military, there is one thing I have learned.

Learn from other peoples mistakes. Gouge is good becuase it is filled with information that people before you learned was good.
I got all the Gouge for my 737 Type Rating. I studied the Gouge for my SWA interview. I used Gouge to get me through Army Pilot training in 83, and AF UPT in 89, F-16 RTU in 90, SOS in 94, F-15E RTU in 95, T-37 PIT in 98, and as Initial Cadre for T-6s a Moody I helped make Gouge.

I graduated Top 10% of my class in everything I have done. Not only becuase I had gouge but I used it to study the important stuff and not just read a bunch of books and not know what was important and what was not.

I also did real well during my Type rating and have been hired by SWA. I owe it all to the Gouge. It allowed me to concentrate my Studing on the Important stuff.

Master Question Files and Gouge are great Study tools to help one prepare.

But there is one thing I can't stand: That is, if you have Gouge and your classmates don't, and you don't provide it to them to allow them to have the same help.

When my class go to T-37s at UPT, we had a guy wash back to us. For the first 3 weeks he knew every answer and we all didn't. I found out he had Gouge and did pass it to us. I grabbed all his gouge and went to Kinkos and made copies for all of us. Needless to say, he got knocked of the King of Hill status, because we now knew what he knew.

Gouge is a good thing as long as you share it with your buds. It's called Team Work. From all the classes I saw while teaching UPT, the dudes who were Team Players did much better than the Lone Wolfes.

Good Luck and Let the Gouge Begin
 

OPIE01

Coffee Break is over!
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I am amazed at those Gouge Sites

I just looked at those gouge sites posted earlier by Yahtzee. Yahtzee can't be right in his saying:

There are many students who just study the gouge, and they struggle in UPT. UPT is tough, and no amount of gouge can replace a good work effort that is focused.

If dudes with Gouge struggle, then how in the world did the dudes who did that website find the time to do it. It is a class act. Also, how better to focus hard work than to know what to focus on. I could never understand why when I was in UPT and ask my instructor what I should study for the next day, he would say "Everything, read and know Everything." What a bafoon.

UPT is not the Academy. We don't want you so well rounded that your "Pointless". We still turn on the firehose, but those that learn how to stuff 20 pounds of knowledge in a 10 pound container the fastest will have time to help thier buds out. Gouge helps you be prepared.

Why come to UPT without knowing something. Why not get a jump on the program. You may not understand it all, but when you get to UPT you will start saying "I remember that", or "Oh, That is what that means".
 

Yahtzee

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Please let me clarify

Originally posted by OPIE01:

I just looked at those gouge sites posted earlier by Yahtzee. Yahtzee can't be right in his saying:

Opie,

I appreciate your inputs and just want to clarify my original post about websites such as www.uptprep.com.

First, I should have never type that post without drinking a cup of coffee to make sure I was functional first. :eek: I was wrong to refer to the gouge as a “spoiled” part of the website. There is a time and place for gouge, and many students simply do not know what or how to study in UPT. They have to be taught what and how to study.

Second, if I thought the site was that bad, I would have never recommended to any future student. In fact, I give my students this site. But, I give it to them with instructions of how to use it.

Third, I didn’t say students who have gouge struggle, I wrote

There are many students who just study the gouge, and they struggle in UPT. UPT is tough, and no amount of gouge can replace a good work effort that is focused.

Please read this sentence again...“There are many students who just study the gouge, and they struggle in UPT.”

I stand by this comment unwavering. I have been a T-1 IP for over three years, and made this comment in reference to students who can get 100s on every EPQ, but that can’t tell me or any other IP how to perform basic procedural maneuvers throughout the program.

There are many types of gouge: Answers to tests, quick reference sheets, nice to know numbers, clarification of poorly worded USAF manuals / instructions. I didn’t communicate my thoughts with my earlier post effectively. When I spoke of “spoiled” gouge, I meant the answers to EPQs, which by the way count a whopping 5% toward the students overall performance. I do believe it is for more important to study the manual that instructs how to do a normal takeoff, a go-around, a circle, or a straight and level practice lost wingman, etc.

What I don’t understand is the lack of effort some students put forth in UPT. Maybe it’s because the USAF allows unlimited 89 rides (elimination rides for you those of you who don’t understand the lingo). With pressure to graduate students from above, some lazy people take advantage of this situation. One student in our squadron went to seven 89s rides, before the squadron commander finally understood this student had no business in a cockpit. It is my opinion that approx 15% of T-1 students simply give the minimum level of effort and only study gouge, and rarely crack the Dash One, 11-203, or chair-fly. Last year, I told one student "I will wipe the smeared food off your face into your mouth, but I will not spoon feed you like a helpless infant." The student struggled not because he wasn't capable, but because he gave sub par effort for the first five months of the program. The last six weeks he finally blossomed. He studied, and showed remarkable improvement over his previous performance. At his graduation, he bought me a drink, and thanked me for trying to help him get his crap together. He admitted he didn't try for the longest time. I wasn't angry at him, just frustrated and disappointed that he could have gotten so much more out of the program, had he simply tried earlier.

Opie, I agree with your comments about teamwork, and sharing information with your fellow classmates. I have and continue to use gouge, I am not holier than you or anyone else, and never intended to imply I was. If my post was taken as such, I apologize. I think at this point in my life, I understand how to use gouge. Some students discover gouge and forget it is only a tool to focus their studying, not a substitute for focused effort. That is where the Instructor comes into to play. I was voted “Best IP” by the students in the first class I ever taught. It had nothing to do with my instructional ability, because I still had to learn how to become an Instructor. PIT only got me qualified in the T-1. At the graduation the night I learned I was the voted the “Best IP” for this class, the SRO told me it was unanimous decision. I didn’t even fly with four of the students. What he told me I did do was this: "You teach, and do not haze. You care and it shows." I have tried to remember to listen, to understand what it is like to be a student, and to think what I would want from my IP if I were the student. Students have taught me as much as I have taught them...maybe I have taught them more about flying, but they have taught me what works and what doesn't in the teaching business. Learning isn't a one way street.

Opie, I think we are trying to do the same thing: help others. Sometimes IPs just have different methods or opinions on how to do that. Sound like having different techniques. I know I did a poor job of communicating my thoughts earlier. I'll work to improve this. Best wishes at SWA!

To all the future studs out there: Good luck, use gouge, but learn how to use it, and what's important. Learn to prioritize your tasks.

I hope this explanation helps. Hey, after all, I've had my daily cup of coffee. ;)
 

AlbieF15

F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
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Good comments from Yahtzee and Opie....

2 cents now from an FTU IP perspective--students learn more than just how to do a cloverleaf, fly form, or an ILS from you guys...they show up with many of your good traits, as well as some of your prejudices. I hope all of you who shape the next generation of AF pilots OBJECTIVELY throw out the pros/cons of weapon systems and lifestyles, and not make a UPT a 52 week banter of "why Vipers @#", or why airlift guys are "toads", or all fighter guys are uptight jerks.

Sometimes I think our bar talk and rivalry BS actually polutes young minds too early. You both sound like good guys...some perspective from you at this stage is just as important as your mechanical teaching skills as these guys (and gals) start focusing on follow on missions.

As for the "lazy" act--well....there are enough guys who want to fly to get rid of those who won't work for it. 10 years is a long time to wait if someone thinks they can just coast for a while until their airline ship comes in... If you have a hard time movtivating students, send them to me and I'll give them a tour of the ABM school at Tyndall. No slam on the hardworking ABM'ers, but 8-10 hours working a scope on an AWACs or RJ is hard work, and it seems to have all the "bad" of of flying career (deployments, grinding ops tempo, uncomfortable surroundings) without much of the pay, glory, and potential follow on careers that a pilot may have. No sh!t--you can explain to your worthless slugs the "pilot shortage" will evaporate post 9/11 but ABM'ers are still undermanned. The AF "owns" these guys for 4-5-8 more years regardless of whether or not they have wings--so if I were them I do everything I could to make sure my next few years were spent doing something I enjoyed verses something I endured. This is not a slam on ABM'ers...but this is a pilot board so I don't have to explain why if I have to ride a plane for 8 hours I'd rather be flying it that riding in it.

Fly safe--and let me know if I can help. Keep sending us your best.

Albie
 

Yahtzee

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AlbieF15 said:
I hope all of you who shape the next generation of AF pilots OBJECTIVELY throw out the pros/cons of weapon systems and lifestyles, and not make a UPT a 52 week banter of "why Vipers @#", or why airlift guys are "toads", or all fighter guys are uptight jerks.

Hey Albie,

Aren't all airlift guys toads, and all fighter pilots uptight jerks? :eek: (I hope you are laughing your a$$ off at this point, cause that was my intent.) I've got to many fighter pilot friends to label you guys that way. You and I both know there are good folks in every arena, along with the not so good.

If you ever need a crash pad in KMEM, give Mike A. (a tanker toad) from your new hire class a buzz. He just moved into his new house on Mudd Island. P.S. Tell him to spend some coin as a single guy, and buy a bed for his house guests. ;)

Now please sit down for this comment:

There are many heavy drivers, including me, who believe the best students in T-37s and T-6s, should pick 38s and go to fighters, not heavies.

I admit the fighter mission is simply not a place for those that need to upgrade their motherboard. The heavy world can put that kid in the right seat, and hopefully had some memory (another IP in the left seat), and new software (three years of experience) before, and if he ever upgrades to the left seat. We just have to be careful not to give a boat anchor to that young Aircraft Commander in the left seat and use common sense (officially termed ORM by the military) when we schedule missions by putting IPs on board with the newest co-pilots. While it is true, that some students will perform better in T-38s than in T-37s, those with 386 processors get overloaded in a Pentium 5 world. Now throw studs still working off 8088 chips, and "Memphis Center, we have a problem." God bless the T-37 and T-6 IPs who work with all of them.

There is no doubt in my mind, the T-1 has lower the standards of becoming a USAF pilot when coupled with the pressure to graduate students in recent years. But that is a failure of our generals (who pressure the Wing Kings on down), not the IP force who tell the commanders "This students has no business in an airplane." IMHO, many students (maybe 15%) who have recently gone down the T-1 track have been given a pair of wings for class attendance versus graduating from UPT. Unlimited 89s rides are joke...Does that piss me off? Oh yeah. Along with a lot of many other T-1 IPs. I won't even get on my soap box about procedural CAP. One recent slug actually said, "Sir, I like being on CAP, because the IPs have to give me more individually tailored help." I went into shock, and was left speechless. I think IPs should have the ability to black-ball one student per class. The IPs could simply take a vote, and the winner (loser) should get to pack bags. No doubt this clown would have gotten my vote.

My answer to his state of mind is simply this: Identify-Document-Eliminate (IDE). We have to work way too hard to wash out bad students. It maybe a little while, but I fully expect the attrition rates to rise slightly in response to post 9/11 affects. On a positive note, our squadron has some of the sharpest IPs I've have ever met teaching in the T-1, and we do graduate some outstanding pilots. It just those lower 15% causes the grave concern. This 15% doesn't happen every class, some classes have no slugs (yeah :) ), and some have five or more (this class reminded me of Job's lot in the Old Testament. :( )

I know AETC is considering asking the USAF to give a service commitment for finishing Phase II training (T-37s, or T-6s), due to the shear number of SIEs (students who quit) in Phase III (T-1s, or T-38s). This has become a problem in the T-1 recently. Maybe the USAF will send students who quit in Phase III to four year controlled ABM tour (after ABM training).
 

HueyPilot

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We had a couple people that thought about SIE'ing when they got T-1s instead of T-38s. It kinda made me mad. I spent the first four years of my military career as an Army engineer, digging holes with shovels, among other things, and sweating my balls off in some god-forsaken forest full of chiggers and other creepy bugs. I'd like to let them do that for a week before they make their decision: fly in airconditioned comfort aboard a heavy, or wear BDUs, live in a tent, and not shower for 7 days at a time.

Bottom line, any flying job is a good job, at least in comparison with some of the other jobs out there. The only valid reasons to SIE in my mind is either you get sick, you KNOW it isn't for you (and don't wait till phase III to figure that out), or you have pressing family reasons, and in that case, you should consider getting out of the military too.

I have a friend who SIE'd and became a transportation officer. He never made it to the flightline.....just figured UPT was too much hassle and quit. Now he's in charge of washing and fixing the base's bus fleet, and according to him he's "loving every minute of it". Whatever.

And about T-1 students spending 3 years in the right seat....yeah, that's typical I guess. But here in the C-21 community, you can potentially be totally responsible for a C-21, flying OCONUS missions to Cuba and S. America, within a year's time. In any case, being an AC on a crewed aircraft that carries pax is a tough job, because everyone's watching you all the time, especially those DVs in the back. Make a bad landing in a fighter, who cares? Make one in a Learjet with the GPWS going off, and everyone on the plane knows about it.
 
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