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UPS MD11 domicile question

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AV80R

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Mar 5, 2004
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Will all SDF MD11 pilots eventually end up in ANC?

If so, why are they putting new-hires on the MD11 in SDF?

Or will they keep an MD11 domicile in SDF as well?
 
1. I don't think so. At least I haven't heard that.

2. ???? I haven't been paying attention that much.

3. I think so.
 
???? I haven't been paying attention that much.

I asked because about 3-5 months ago there was a class where all MD11 new-hires got SDF as a domicile; no one said anything about ANC to them so they assume it's more of a "permanent" domicile. I thought though that eventually all MD11 guys will go to ANC?

I'm hearing that "Z" flying has much more domestic trips now and if so MD11 SDF sounds like a great choice for someone who prefers international over domestic. However, I'm thinking there's a "catch" such as eventually beeing displaced to ANC. Any ideas?
 
UPS has displacement bids all the time. If they have too many in SDF, they'll move them to ANC. The reason new hires are going to SDF is because the IRO positions are going to FO's. Hence why they are reducing the Captains there. The word is that MD-11 SDF will reverse the numbers, ie. 225 FO's and about 160 Capt's. And ANC is to grow to about 200 Capt"s and I figure around 280 FO's or so. They are so short on MD-11 pilots that managers are all over the system. For now the only kinda firm(ish) thing is that ANC will have 250 MD-11 pilots by the end of 2007. There are 10 MD deliveries next year and I'd say they are all going to ANC.

All I know for sure is that a new hire today won't get his/her leather jacket until 03/08!!!!!!!
 
We are getting brown leather jackets and the company can only make about 50 a month. The order they are making them in is the over 60 guys first and then by seniority so a new hire won't get their jackets until 08.
 
I'm a jet pilot and I don't get it either, please explain. Thanks

Perrone announced they can only make 50 jackets or so a month, so that being said it’ll take some time to make new jackets for 3,000 pilots – since they do it by seniority it’ll be a while for a new hire to get his/her. That's ok, it's a nice jacket (it's basically same as SWA jacket but it's dark brown) and it's free, I don't mind waiting!

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Brown cow, based on what you said, I assume there’s a plan to have an MD11 domicile in SDF even in the future, am I correct? Do you think that someone who by the summer will have ~ 12 months seniority will be able to hold it or will he/she get displaced to ANC?

The word is that MD-11 SDF will reverse the numbers, ie. 225 FO's and about 160 Capt's. And ANC is to grow to about 200 Capt"s and I figure around 280 FO's or so

So that’s good news for SDF MD11 fos right? (not so good for captains I guess)

Sorry about the numerous questions, trying to make some decisions for the near future. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
AV80R said:
I'm a jet pilot and I don't get it either, please explain. Thanks

Perrone announced they can only make 50 jackets or so a month, so that being said it’ll take some time to make new jackets for 3,000 pilots – since they do it by seniority it’ll be a while for a new hire to get his/her. That's ok, it's a nice jacket (it's basically same as SWA jacket but it's dark brown) and it's free, I don't mind waiting!

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Brown cow, based on what you said, I assume there’s a plan to have an MD11 domicile in SDF even in the future, am I correct? Do you think that someone who by the summer will have ~ 12 months seniority will be able to hold it or will he/she get displaced to ANC?

The word is that MD-11 SDF will reverse the numbers, ie. 225 FO's and about 160 Capt's. And ANC is to grow to about 200 Capt"s and I figure around 280 FO's or so

So that’s good news for SDF MD11 fos right? (not so good for captains I guess)

Sorry about the numerous questions, trying to make some decisions for the near future. Thanks.
Click to expand...
My guess... the MD-11 pilots assigned to the SDF domicile after '07 will be pretty senior (10+ years seniority... my guess only.) If you want SDF bid something else while you are junior. On the other hand, I believe we'll see 3-4 yr seniority captains in ANC before too long (<2yrs.) Nice opportunity to make the big bucks while being very junior if you can handle ANC. I know Mega's pretty tempted to support her fiance in the great frigid north! :D

BBB
 
psysicx said:
What are the trips like on the MD?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine long.

Psysicx - weren't you just trying to get hired by a guard unit and just guard bum the next 20 years of your life, i.e. live the life of luxury making 30K a year as a traditional with no full time health insurance? I thought you had the guard bum deal all planned out. Why the sudden interest in change of plans? LOL
 
Scrapdog said:
I'd imagine long.

Psysicx - weren't you just trying to get hired by a guard unit and just guard bum the next 20 years of your life, i.e. live the life of luxury making 30K a year as a traditional with no full time health insurance? I thought you had the guard bum deal all planned out. Why the sudden interest in change of plans? LOL
Click to expand...


What's the QOL of a guard bum? Any west coast bases? How long to upgrade?
 
My guess... the MD-11 pilots assigned to the SDF domicile after '07 will be pretty senior (10+ years seniority... my guess only.) If you want SDF bid something else while you are junior.

Thanks for the reply BBB. You really think you'll need 10 year seniority to hold MD11 SDF FO after 2007? Why such dramatic shift? Right now, being a new guy, I'd be more senior on MD11 SDF than "Z" or even ONT. (according to IPA's "seniority tool")
 
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No, BBB is referring to Captains. There will always be an MD base in SDF. And the numbers will always be up there. Europe (including) the middle East will be much easier served by planes flying out of SDF rather than ANC. Everyone seems to think that ANC is the new thing. Well in a way, it is, but the square footage of the sort facility in SDF is probably more than the combined size of every building on the ANC airport. ANC was only done because of crew efficiency.

However, AV80R if you want to bid MD-11 SDF remember that you really can't be displaced after your first year. There may be a little play with the last few on the list, but for the most part fleets are growing and the required number of FO's is going up. The MD is the way of the future, the way of the future, the way of the future (couldn't resist). UPS will have just shy of 40 airplanes (????) within short course and they aren't all going to ANC. My prediction........SDF MD- 180/250, ANC MD- 220/300. Finally, if you look at the shifts and changes in the fleet seniority lists, there really isn't a lot of movement. What this means, is that when somebody upgrades at UPS from the panel to the front, they pretty much stay in that fleet/seat for a while. Very few move around from fleet to fleet after their intital upgrade. There is a little back and forth from Z to MD, but for the most part people sit tight. Bottom line, if you bid the MD, and you are # 180, chances are that won't change much unless there are upgrades, but you will never go back all too many. If you consider that there will be more 767 flying in Europe and every 767 going over the Atlantic is essentially stuffed, the MD will be big and beautiful for a long time in SDF. Finally, they are still short about 60 FO's on the MD in SDF.
 
80for80 said:
What's the QOL of a guard bum? Any west coast bases? How long to upgrade?
Click to expand...

Rhoid...more screen names and avatars than chins in a chinese phone book.... How's the brain damage goin??
 
No, BBB is referring to Captains. There will always be an MD base in SDF. And the numbers will always be up there.

- I see, thank you for the clarification, it makes more sense now.

However, AV80R if you want to bid MD-11 SDF remember that you really can't be displaced after your first year.

Can’t? You mean I probably wouldn’t be - right? Surely they can display me anytime they need more ANC pilots? Are you saying that if I get the MD11 in SDF as an FO I would be pretty safe from getting displaced to ANC even though I'll only have a whopping ;) ~ 12 months seniority worth under my belt?

If I understand you correctly, if I bid the MD11 in SDF as a junior guy it sounds like I’ll be at the bottom of the lists for long time to come. However, I heard they use reserves on the Mad Dog a lot so in effect I’d be flying all the time as if I had a hard line, right?

Since the MD11 ANC will be the most junior captain domicile for quite some time maybe flying the MD11 out of SDF for 5-6 years, or whatever time it takes to get in the first Captain upgrade available, would be a good way to get used to the airplane and the trips it flies?

Thanks to everyone for y’alls inputs, really appreciate it!
 
Last edited:
AV80R said:
I'm hearing that "Z" flying has much more domestic trips now and if so MD11 SDF sounds like a great choice for someone who prefers international over domestic.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is true about Z. We had our normal upsurge during peak, but that is all. In fact, we'll be getting a lot more intra europe and even some rumored South America-Europe trips as the year goes on
 
767Pilot, thanks for your reply.

Also, I was wrong about Perrone leather jacket; they're making 50 a week not a month as I said earlier.
 
80for80 said:
I heard they are going to displace junior ONT F/Os to ANC.
Click to expand...


Totally untrue...They are growing the Ontario domicile to around 150 fo's this year, so it wouldn't make any sense. They will hire into ANC. BTW, 80 for 80, do you even work for Brown? I think not...
 
rocket bob said:
Totally untrue...They are growing the Ontario domicile to around 150 fo's this year, so it wouldn't make any sense. They will hire into ANC. BTW, 80 for 80, do you even work for Brown? I think not...
Click to expand...

He was talking smack.
 
The Int'l trips out of ONT..are they senior?

If so, what can a junior guy expect once off reserve?

thank you
 
TriJet said:
The Int'l trips out of ONT..are they senior?

If so, what can a junior guy expect once off reserve?

thank you
Click to expand...

Very senior.

You can expect a conglomerate of 2-4 day trips placed on your line in complete disarray.
 

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