ups/fedex

[capt. megadeth]

I thank god every day that UPS is NOT an airline and has the means to pay us well and I also thank god for the unity of the IPA that will make those 40% pay raises, and other increases that some pilots can't stand, possible.

Amen to that!

 

[Boris Badenov]

As one of the sweaty check haulers darning his socks (albeit having enough time to post here), just let me say thanks for raising the bar and go get em! To borrow a tired but accurate old aphorism "You don't get paid what you deserve, you get paid what you negotiate." I, for one, am not going to waste my time explaining to anyone that I don't want to get rich, just comfortable. Think what you like, I want a raise, and what's good for the guys in brown will eventually be good for me too (and you, it turns out).

Regards,
Boris

PS. Anyone know anything about the mechanics? It's pretty embarrassing when all we can do is pursefight in totally unrelated threads.

 

[needapayraise]

According to the UPSjobs website, UPS is not currently recruiting mechanics. BTW Boris, My first job was flying cancelled checks, so hang in there and good things will happen!

 

[Deuce130]

I simply think that it is lots more unfair for the regionals to pay a five year guy 30k than it is for ups to pay a five year guy what he makes and for him to complain about it.

Then Fu#*ing quit and go to med school. If you don't like working for 30K a year, then don't do it. Or negotiate a better contract. But, I'm sure you can't b/c there's a ton of other dudes ready, willing, and able to take your job for even less than what you're willing to work for.

 

[JohnnyCash]

its not 30/year its 26/year.

"Or negotiate a better contract. But, I'm sure you can't..."

what makes you so sure?

johnny

 

[rattler]

Then Fu#*ing quit and go to med school. If you don't like working for 30K a year, then don't do it. Or negotiate a better contract. But, I'm sure you can't b/c there's a ton of other dudes ready, willing, and able to take your job for even less than what you're willing to work for.

Sorry, I can't stand that "f'n quit then" mentality. I hear that so much, how about grow a pair and stand up and fight for something you believe in. You are a fool for not supporting any company that is trying to raise the bar for ALL of us. I hope the UPS guys get every penny they deserve.

Most regionals by the way pay much more than $30K/yr after 5 years. I am a 5th year guy and I clear a little better than $70K/yr. Which by the way sucks. I know high school drop outs that make much more than I do.

 

[Clyde]

Dude, the guy is a five year F/O and makes just under 100,000. I think he has issues with money managment. Does he think he is going to get pay cuts soon? His pay will continue to go up and top 200,000 one day. Or hopefully he will get so fed up, quit and let me take his place. I will be very thankfull if i were working with one of the top three majors in the industry.

First and foremost, I too am a 5th year f/o, and my YTD earnings with international override is around $104,000.00

Good money? You bet, I am not going to say it is poverty wages. Would I be happy with more money? Absolutely, who is going to turn down more compensation, especially when your employer has the ability to pay you more.

av8er23,

Not unlike anyone else, I paid my dues. I'm not going to write an autobiography, but I carried school loans for almost 10 years before paying them off (finally) and what I make in 1 year is roughly equivalent to what I made in the 5 years between college and date of hire.

As I have said in the past, you don't make what you are worth, but you make what you can negotiate for. $100K is a lot of money compared to $40K I made as a DA-20 captain, but overall it isn't hitting the jackpot. After taxes, you are lucky to keep $70K of it. Factor in cost of living expenses, and that does not equate to whole lot of money. Maybe it did in 1984, but not in today's dollars. And before you ask, I will tell you that I too live below my means, carry a mortgage, and pay cash for everything else, so I am not your "typical" ferrari-driving yacht-sailing guys.

I made the decision to come here, so I am not going to give you a bleeding-heart story of how hard the night-freight scene is, how multiple time-zone changes around the world affect you, or what a 14-day trip is like. I will say this much: I like what I do, but I would not do it for any less than what I am currently doing it for now. We are profitable, the company is willing to give us a raise, and we are setting our goals and expectations higher, not lower.

If you think we make too much money right now, then stay away. I wouldn't want you to be unhappy, and I definitely would not want you negotiating on my behalf.

 

[Clyde]

Why would I want your job? So I can wear that crappy brown uniform that makes you look like a bellman at the Hilton? If you are that ignorant to not know the solution to your problem, maybe I can help.

FU***ING QUIT AND GO TO MED SCHOOL

As long as UPS is paying for my uniforms 100%, they can pinstripe it with gold for all I care. Heck, for the right amount of money I'll even do a little dance on my way up the stairs to the airplane.

By the way, that 100% also includes new uniform pieces annually, suitcase, and brain-bag.

Why would I want your job?

You wouldn't. They make you wear brown.

 

[Clyde]

I'm far from miserable....lol. I have a 4 minute drive to work, and am home most evenings/nights which means my kids actually have a "daddy". I drive a late model truck, I'm still paying for school, have all the bills most have plus some, and I don't make 94K per year. I fly newer equipment than he does, fly for a Fortune 300 Corporation, and average 600 hrs per year which is considered very high for part 91. Am I bitter? Not at all. I know things could be much better paywise, but I'm happy as Hell to have a job right now. This guy is a 5 year F/O for God's sake, and you want me to feel sorry for him? I think not!!! Maybe the two of you should get together and make out, and maybe just hold one another for a little while as you reassure one another things will be ok. Is this guy going to be pitching a fit when he's making over 200K as a Captain someday? He knew what he was getting into when he took the job for $27.00 per hour for first year pay.

I have a 4 minute drive to work, and am home most evenings/nights which means my kids actually have a "daddy".

I have a 20-minute drive to work, so you have me beat. However, I make the drive about twice a month. You are home most evenings and nights, and I think we are even there. I sat reserve for an entire bid period this fall, and I flew once, and it was an afternoon turn. I got bored being home for two months straight.

I don't have kids, so "daddy" is irrelevant.

I drive a late model truck, I'm still paying for school, have all the bills most have plus some, and I don't make 94K per year.

Does your late model truck have a payment that goes along with it each month? Mine is a 2001 F-150, completely paid for, no consumer debt, and 12 years left on a 15 year mortgage. Because people ahead of me negotiated by placing their goals and objectives higher and not lower, I am able to live like this. BTW, I have flown 170 hours this year.

I fly newer equipment than he does,

Oh no, not the shiny new jet syndrome again. Your's is newer, mine is bigger. (no pun intended)

fly for a Fortune 300 Corporation,

I fly for big corporation too.

Am I bitter? Not at all.

I would say slightly, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I know things could be much better paywise, but I'm happy as Hell to have a job right now.

And you should be. I know several corporate pilots, and they all have one thing in common: multiple-page resumes.

This guy is a 5 year F/O for God's sake, and you want me to feel sorry for him? I think not!!!

Nobody wants anybody to feel sorry for anyone. I don't why you think that.

Maybe the two of you should get together and make out, and maybe just hold one another for a little while as you reassure one another things will be ok.

I thought you said you weren't bitter.

Is this guy going to be pitching a fit when he's making over 200K as a Captain someday?

If he is, wouldn't you agree that it is a nice problem to be pitching a fit over?

 

[Deuce130]

Sorry, I can't stand that "f'n quit then" mentality. I hear that so much, how about grow a pair and stand up and fight for something you believe in. You are a fool for not supporting any company that is trying to raise the bar for ALL of us. I hope the UPS guys get every penny they deserve.

Most regionals by the way pay much more than $30K/yr after 5 years. I am a 5th year guy and I clear a little better than $70K/yr. Which by the way sucks. I know high school drop outs that make much more than I do.

You got the wrong guy, I was quoting the other guy and making a point about his prior post. I'm all for UPS making a gazillion dollars, hopefully it will rub off on the rest of us.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Nice last post Clyde! Those who have gone before us in this profession (what's left of it) would roll over in their graves if they heard the crap posted on this board. The race to the bottom and "I'll gladly work for less" mentality prevalent on the passenger side has certainly helped to erode the past 30 years' gains in collective bargaining agreements.

BBB

BTW ... The CA poverty line for a family of four is $54,000 and change. Below this level, the state steps in with all sorts of financial assistance programs. Some on this board are REALLY out of touch with REALITY! There's a reason housing in Peoria and Cedar Rapids is cheap ... NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THERE!

 

[Clyde]

Nice last post Clyde! Those who have gone before us in this profession (what's left of it) would roll over in their graves if they heard the crap posted on this board. The race to the bottom and "I'll gladly work for less" mentality prevalent on the passenger side has certainly helped to erode the past 30 years' gains in collective bargaining agreements.

BBB

BTW ... The CA poverty line for a family of four is $54,000 and change. Below this level, the state steps in with all sorts of financial assistance programs. Some on this board are REALLY out of touch with REALITY! There's a reason housing in Peoria and Cedar Rapids is cheap ... NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THERE!

BBB,

Thanks! It seems like a lot of people are throwing in the towel without putting up much of a fight. I want to raise the bar so high, that we will need a telescope to see it!

- Clyde
100% IPA

 

[27 driver]

From my prospective, it sounds like the UPS boys and girls have it pretty good. I can't see how anybody would fault them for trying to negotiate a better wage though. I am a night freight pilot(not for UPS) and I know how hard it is to be awake all night. I will make a little over $80K this year before taxes and it is not a lot of money. I see the sun set and rise every day. Like some have posted, they make their company a lot of money and are entitled to their share of it. I think 40% might be a little unrealistic but more power to them. Good luck with new contract. Hopefully I will be sporting a brown uniform someday.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

Do UPS pilots make good money now? From the facts posted on this thread, I would have to say yes. Do they deserve a 40% pay raise? From the facts posted on this thread, I would have to say yes. Compensation must be in line and similar to revenue generated by the employer. It seems to this biased aviator that the model is broken at UPS. It seems clear to me that UPS management does not want to share the success and profits with their pilot group. That is not acceptable.
Although I disagree with the previous posts (cry me a river, quit go the med school, etc) I can sympathize with a pilot in my income bracket. I currently work at a regional for over 7 years and know that I would not earn $94500+ for another 7 years. That much money sounds great to me! Allow me to stress once again I do disagree with those previous posts (poorly worded IMHO).
Good luck in your negotiations and go raise the bar. I hope you can avoid a strike but realize that may be required to sign a contract you all deserve.

 

[needapayraise]

From my prospective, it sounds like the UPS boys and girls have it pretty good. I can't see how anybody would fault them for trying to negotiate a better wage though. I am a night freight pilot(not for UPS) and I know how hard it is to be awake all night. I will make a little over $80K this year before taxes and it is not a lot of money. I see the sun set and rise every day. Like some have posted, they make their company a lot of money and are entitled to their share of it. I think 40% might be a little unrealistic but more power to them. Good luck with new contract. Hopefully I will be sporting a brown uniform someday.

40% for F/O's is in the ballpark for the raise we will get. Captains will be getting around a 20% raise. The disparity is due the the hidden "B" scale that is in the current contract for junior F/O's.

 

[27 driver]

40% for F/O's is in the ballpark for the raise we will get. Captains will be getting around a 20% raise. The disparity is due the the hidden "B" scale that is in the current contract for junior F/O's.[/quote

]

needapayraise,
I thought you were asking for 40% across the board. That sounded like a lot to me for one jump. Will it be 40% over a couple of years or right away? Either way you should get a piece of the pie. I really hope that it doesn't come to a strike though. Management doesn't like to come off that money easily. For your sake and mine I hope you get a fair deal. If you guys strike I will not be able to fly either as I am one of those lowly contractors flying the Menlo/UPS freight. When are the negotiations going to be over? Good luck and to quote everyone else "raise the bar high".

Tail Winds,
27 driver

 

[capt. megadeth]

I think the point of the 40%/20% is to make more money earlier on. I don't know if that makes sense or if I am right.

 

[needapayraise]

I think the point of the 40%/20% is to make more money earlier on. I don't know if that makes sense or if I am right.

The 40% and 20% will be up front with nice yearly increases to boot.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

OK. Where has Need A Payraise been? Your posts are motivating and there are a lot of newhires on edge with the strike talk.

The nice thing about only making 26k is that if we go on strike and get fired, it's really not that big of a paycut!

 

[bombinha]

Hey needpayraise. Thanks for guys like you willing to raise the bar. We here pray for you guys to get it, so we can also raise ours.

And about the med school posted by av8er23... Why in the world should a Med. doctor make more money than a pilot???? Does he kill more than one when he makes a mistake? does he had to operate on the middle of the night in an every day bases. Does he have to stay up and safe surgery for 20 hours and does he has a 2 or max 3 team people?? So why should them make more than us? I our responsibility is way and far away bigger than them? Thank about it.

HAVE all a GREAT 2006 HAPPY NEW YEAR for ALL

 

[psysix]

Hey needpayraise. Thanks for guys like you willing to raise the bar. We here pray for you guys to get it, so we can also raise ours.

And about the med school posted by av8er23... Why in the world should a Med. doctor make more money than a pilot???? Does he kill more than one when he makes a mistake? does he had to operate on the middle of the night in an every day bases. Does he have to stay up and safe surgery for 20 hours and does he has a 2 or max 3 team people?? So why should them make more than us? I our responsibility is way and far away bigger than them? Thank about it.

HAVE all a GREAT 2006 HAPPY NEW YEAR for ALL

Do you guys at Kalitta really expect to benefit from the contract increases at UPS and FedEx? They are in a totally seperate business from Kalitta. You guys are an ACMI carrier and to expect to coat tail on their contracts is totally nieve and arrogant on your part. The ACMI carriers are not in the same class as UPS and FedEx and never will be. The ACMI business it too cut throat to expect anything other than marginal increases in any contract.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I disagree with the above post. Heavy freight is where the future high paying jobs will be. If I was at a large ACMI carrier I'd stay put rather than going to SWA or Cal. China is a gravy train.

 

[psysix]

I disagree with the above post. Heavy freight is where the future high paying jobs will be. If I was at a large ACMI carrier I'd stay put rather than going to SWA or Cal. China is a gravy train.

Heavy freight as in UPS and FedEx for the high paying jobs. ACMI has never been, nor will ever be, high paying.

 

[TheSulaco]

If you do not get the 40/20 is there a chance you will strike?

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Yes. We are probably 100 days or less from either a strike or an industry leading contract.

 

[pianoman]

When the leverage is on your side and the company can afford it, you use it. Airlines have no problem crying poor and asking for cuts when times are bad. Our job is to take care of ourselves an ensure that the pendulum swings the other way when times are good.

BTW, does everyone else on the board not realize that pay rates trickle down? How do you expect to raise "regional" pay if A-320 CA's are making $100/hr? I for one am glad these guys are boosting the top end.

Oh yea, can I have a job at UPS please?

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

One side here is arrogant, they will push pay and cry poor until they go the way
of the Dodo (pronounced DEL-tah).
The other side is taking an aggressive (perhapse whiny) stance to try to
convince them how good they have it.

Reality:
All of you can (and will) be replaced by a chip/box.
...and I can fix chips/boxes...

suckers.


CE

 

[pianoman]

Mmm... flame bait. Enjoy it until someone wants to replace you with either a computer or someone from India.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Mmm... flame bait. Enjoy it until someone wants to replace you with either a computer or someone from India.

I am sure they already WANT to.