UPS DC-8 in the mud @ GSO

[embpic1]

Looks like nose gear skid marks. Does the 8 have nose gear brakes?

That looks like he was trying to correct with nose wheel steering but it wasn't enough to keep it on the runway, hence the nose wheel skid mark.

 

[b707guy]

No nosewheel brakes on a DC-8. It does appear to be the nosewheel that left the skid, so it seems likely that whatever was driving the jet off to the right couldn't be overcome by whatever steering input was being given. Beyond that, who knows until the real story comes out. Regardless, hope the crew gets through it all ok.

 

[b707guy]

Was the airplane there for mx or is that a normal run (or both...?).

 

[PreContact]

Normal flight GSO-SDF next day air inbound sort. Everyone was ok, but no details other than it happened around 80 kts.

 

[Flyer8]

We had an incident involving an L-382( C-130) several years ago..During take-off roll,a nose steering actuator failed resulting in an uncommanded maximum right turn. A very experienced Captain was off the runway before he knew what happened. It's interesting to me,because the skid marks in the UPS pic look really similar to those in the Herk incident..

 

[kaveman9]

That exact same thing happened to us just a couple of months ago in the -8 in PDX. No nosewheel steering through the rudder pedals. By the time you recognize it and transition to the tiller, you overcompensate and scrub the nose tire off. Take a look at the pavement on 10R in PDX. I think our nose skid is still there from October. Manual stomping of the left brake is the only thing that kept us on the pavement.

I've had it happen one other time many years ago, but it was actually some spring that snapped that caused the rudder pedal steering to go away. Screaming saved the day there. I was taking off, F/O. Moronic company policy dictates that the CA has the throttles even when the F/O is making the takeoff. Power came up and we were heading off into the bushes on the right. Full leff rudder had no effect. Full left brake slowed the divergence. Screaming got the CA's hand on the wheel(it was likely headed there anyway). Fortunately we had enough weight on the nose that the tires bit and pulled us back to the runway. Why the Co thinks it's better to have someone flying a 300,000# jet without complete control, I'll never understand. Sometimes you just don't have time to recognize what's wrong, decide on an action, verbalize those thoughts, and wait for someone else to react.

In PDX we were light and probably tail heavy, and as I recall we were cleared for an immediate with traffic on short final, so the nose was light enough that the tires didn't bite,................until I stomped the brake and the nose lowered. Then we shot back to the left and remained on the pavement. That one turned out to be a worn centering cam or some such crap. Plane spent a week on the ground and it was a MX nightmare to find the problem.

It's a hella ride!

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

In PDX we were light and probably tail heavy, and as I recall we were cleared for an immediate with traffic on short final, so the nose was light enough that the tires didn't bite,................until I stomped the brake and the nose lowered. Then we shot back to the left and remained on the pavement. That one turned out to be a worn centering cam or some such crap. Plane spent a week on the ground and it was a MX nightmare to find the problem.

It's a hella ride!

Ground shift: Light aircraft, aft CG. When power's applied the nose comes up and the ground shift goes into air mode. This disables the tiller steering and does something else to the brakes through the anti-skid system. Any lateral drift is uncorrectable until either the nose comes down or sufficient speed results in the anti-skid giving the brakes back.

ABX have had a couple of 8s run off the side because of this - it's one of the not so nice characteristics - the moral being when light with aft CG to get lined up and not perform a rolling takeoff.

 

[b707guy]

The rudder pedal control of the nosewheel is the only steering function affected by groundshift to the flight mode. The tiller still works until hydraulics are removed during retraction, and you can turn the nosewheel in flight with the gear down using the tiller (it's the first thing to try to raise the gear if you have trouble raising the gear). I'm with kaveman on our power application policy, and with heavyjet on being aligned with the runway when setting takeoff power at light weight and with an aft CG is a very good thing to do! (not saying the UPS crew wasn't...)

 

[kaveman9]

The tiller steering was still working. That's how we got full deflection and the nosewheel skid. That's what shows in the pic of the OOPS plane above. Twice I've been aboard when rudder pedal steering was inop, and the obvious way to tell that is that during the rudder check you don't get feedback through the tiller. We had feedback through the tiller, both on taxi out and taxi in back to the ramp. That's what was so confusing about the whole thing. MX had a time figuring it out.

Even though we had the feedback, we didn't have much effectiveness. Tiller steering was normal, but on the taxi back to the ramp you could flat floor the left pedal and nothing. Flat floor the right pedal and the craft would slowly drift off to the right. Funny thing,.................MX changed the nose tires and said we were good to go. We agreed; we went to the hotel. I think it was eight or ten days later that the plane finally left the ramp.

 

[erichartmann]

Ground shift: Light aircraft, aft CG. When power's applied the nose comes up and the ground shift goes into air mode. This disables the tiller steering and does something else to the brakes through the anti-skid system. Any lateral drift is uncorrectable until either the nose comes down or sufficient speed results in the anti-skid giving the brakes back.

ABX have had a couple of 8s run off the side because of this - it's one of the not so nice characteristics - the moral being when light with aft CG to get lined up and not perform a rolling takeoff.

Light a/c, aft cg, the nose strut extends and drops onto the centering cam. This DOES disable the steering. Add to this one outboard slow to spool, and you will be in the tullies in a heart beat.