UPS buying Polar again!

[FreightNazi]

If we buy you, we'll see who's laughing at the end! The smart bet is that the Polar pilots won't be the one's laughing!

 

[I.P. Freley]

So, we start with this pointed and IMHO correct observation:

You (FreightNazi) seem resolute in finding some kind of perverse joy in the potential of a number of people possibly losing their jobs to the brown juggernaut.

To which he helpfully replies:

I am truly sorry that you feel this way about me. I do not feel "superior" to anyone or any other pilot group.

And a few posts later:

If we buy you, we'll see who's laughing at the end! The smart bet is that the Polar pilots won't be the one's laughing!

Nazi, are you still confused as to why more than one person thinks you are completely disingenuous in your assertion that you don't take joy in other people possibly losing work because of Brown?

 

[Whale Rider]

If we buy you, we'll see who's laughing at the end! The smart bet is that the Polar pilots won't be the one's laughing!

IF....IF...IF.....It might help if you base your arguments on fact not fantasy from now on.

 

[robert_fla]

"One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them. If UPS buys Polar, look for UPS to cherry pick what it wants ( 400s and int'l route authority ) and either not buy the rest or $hitcan it."

W/out making any assertions I believe the courts, (no, i cannot quote any case law), have ruled that the pilots at an airline that is being bought have a right to fly the routes the airline used to fly.

Where things get tricky is how many pilots are actually needed to fly the routes. Generally, it has been much less than the pilots at the airline. Basically the reserves are not needed. So, some Polar pilots could be let go, but if brown elected to shaft all the polar pilots it would probably lead to a law suit.

Personally, I think it is a rumor and is not going to happen.

r

 

[Clyde]

"One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them. If UPS buys Polar, look for UPS to cherry pick what it wants ( 400s and int'l route authority ) and either not buy the rest or $hitcan it."

W/out making any assertions I believe the courts, (no, i cannot quote any case law), have ruled that the pilots at an airline that is being bought have a right to fly the routes the airline used to fly.

Where things get tricky is how many pilots are actually needed to fly the routes. Generally, it has been much less than the pilots at the airline. Basically the reserves are not needed. So, some Polar pilots could be let go, but if brown elected to shaft all the polar pilots it would probably lead to a law suit.

Personally, I think it is a rumor and is not going to happen.

r

I agree. One thing I've learned about Brown over the years is this: they are the best in the business about keeping a secret. There has been NO official announcement by the company with regards to purchasing anybody. With that said and the fact that this rumor is the current topic of conversation here, I wouldn't place any faith into it. If I were a betting man, I would bet that this is simply just a rumor, nothing more nothing less.

There is one more thing I've learned about Brown also. They don't just let anybody work here. They might offer interviews, but in the end if you want to work here, you have to interview, get hired, and start at the bottom just like everybody else. If one is a captain somewhere else and the thought of being "stapled" and possibly starting as an FE makes you sick, then please feel free to stand in line at the unemployment office. A former senior captain elsewhere turned junior FE at Brown is a lot better than a former captain turned unemployment receipient.

I've read the posts about ALPA and all of the "musts" that UPS would supposedly have to abide by. Well, there's good reason why ALPA's rules wouldn't work in the hypothetical case of a buyout of Polar.

First, two seperate unions. ALPA has no say as to how it's members would be integrated into a private pilot union.

Second, this isn't one airline purchasing another. This is a giant transportation conglomerate purchasing the assets of a much smaller cargo airline. i.e., ALPA cannot say how it's pilots would be merged with regards to seniority at a trucking company. Remember, the airline is only part of UPS, not the other way around.

Third, UAL, USAirways and pensions. If ALPA were as strong as it claims to be, the union would have been able to do a lot more for it's members than what we have been witnessing. They can't even take care of issues with it's carriers, what makes anyone think they are going to be able to force a multi-billion dollar transportation conglomerate to deal on ALPA's terms?

Finally, there is talk on here about route authority and aquisition. Pesonally, I don't think Brown is as interested in the routes as much as they are in acquiring airframes. True, the routes would then be up for another bid, and Brown could possibly win them back by proving that they have the airframes and personnel to successfully operate them. This last part is pure speculation.

Again, I think this UPS-Polar thing is just a rumor. I've heard so many "based on a good reliable source" rumors since I've been here, and everytime the big announcement happened it was totally different than everyone thought.

A good rule of thumb is this: if you know about it before Big Brown says something, it isn't going to happen.

 

[goastar]

o

"One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them."

Had nothing to do with the fact AA was not ALPA, had to do with the fact that TWA gave up their scope clause in bankruptcy court. It bit them in the end. If Polar has a scope they may not have to be stapled or booted to the street. ( FYI, the court presedence is the Allegeny-Mohawk agreement which prevents stapling.) Big if, UPS did'nt become who they are by not knowing how to side step around problems.

That being said, it does not matter, I don't agree with whats his names attitude, but that does not matter either. It is a fact of life, there will always be people out there like that. Beside who ever said it has a valid point, I would rather be at the bottom of of the UPS list with a future than at the top of list of a company that treats you like crap. At least at UPS you get compensated well for being treated like crap.

The IPA is strong and that is a good model for us all, UNITY. ALPA should take notes. We need a good old fashion SOS, but the boys at ALPA are a bunch of sell outs. I imagine more pensions will be dropped shortly and contracts may be cancelled, and that should scare us all.

Rots of ruck.

 

[sandman2122]

Notice how the UPS posts are cool, calm and collective and the Polar guys are freaking out about this subject??

Na, just another rumor.

 

[heilhaavir]

I love the "Big Announcement at the end of the month" ...... how many times have we heard this one? Seriously guys, why are you even responding to the nazi, let him think he's superior Who really cares? Tomorrow is another day, anything can happen, so enjoy it as it comes.

 

[Whale Rider]

Notice how the UPS posts are cool, calm and collective and the Polar guys are freaking out about this subject??

Na, just another rumor.

Were not freaking out, you just wish we were.

 

[B-atch]

David and Goliath

I for one always bid on the underdog....If this was a SIMPLE business transaction, I'm sure BIG BAD UPS would have made it's move a LOOONG time ago...Anyhow.... I was loocking for a job when I found this one, soooo......LET THE GAMEs begin!!!!!

 

[furloughfodder]

Notice how the UPS posts are cool, calm and collective and the Polar guys are freaking out about this subject??

Haha! Gotta love sarcasm.

 

[heilhaavir]

16 more days for Freightnazi's "Big announcement"

Can hardly wait LOL

 

[waazzuuuup!!]

UPS to purchase Polar Air Cargo
Monday May 16, 09:33 am ET

Purchase, NY.--(BUSINESS WIRE)—May 16, 2005--Moving to expand the capacity of its air network to accommodate strong international growth, UPS (NYSE: UPS - News) today announced a plan to purchase Polar Air cargo in a deal that’s worth a $hit load of money.

"The Deal will allow UPS to effectively meet the fast-growing demands of their customers across a variety of global trade lanes and also replace 45 UPS aircraft thereby furloughing all the new hires. This is an exciting opportunity for the Polar pilots to upgrade and put high paid UPS pilots on the street

Also, the new CEO will be named Freightnazi's. He’s been day dreaming of this position ever since we hired the piece of $hit, said UPS current" President and Chief Executive Officer.

Towards the end of the month our new CEO “Freightnazi's”, will update this board and the public with some more oh his bullsit!!!!

Stay tuned.

 

[Whale Rider]

In other news:

Polar/Atlas are hiring at an alarming rate....characteristic of an upcomming take over.

 

[CSY Mon]

Polar/Atlas are hiring at an alarming rate....characteristic of an upcomming take over.

Don't sleep well Mr. Whale Rider.....Don't sleep well...

 

[Reebo]

In other news:

Polar/Atlas are hiring at an alarming rate....characteristic of an upcomming take over.

put me in coach, hire me!

 

[Whale Rider]

Don't sleep well Mr. Whale Rider.....Don't sleep well...

Hmmmm?

 

[Pancho747]

To freightnazi, you are a complete total f***ing jacka** - lack of intelligence or rational - a typical pilot; I might add.

 

[FreightNazi]

To freightnazi, you are a complete total f***ing jacka** - lack of intelligence or rational - a typical pilot; I might add.

Oh well, let's compare W-2's sometime!

 

[Flybwoy]

Now that's funny!